Suggestion Unboxed - Appreciating the Underappreciated

Doug: You may recall that back on October 9, in the midst of a fit of non-creativity, we solicited readers' thoughts on post ideas. What we got was amazing, and we've already mined that one-day flurry of brainpower for several good days' conversations. Today I'm pulling two thoughts from the same comment. Both were in a cornucopia (seasonal reference there) of offerings from Martinex1, and since they are related I am putting them together in the same post. I'll take the liberty of leading off with some thoughts of my own. Many thanks again to all -- and this isn't the last time we'll be doing this, so if you took a penny for your thoughts, you'll yet be further rewarded.

Mike S. (Martinex1): Under appreciated comic book artists and writers (no Kirby, Byrne, Lee, Claremont here...).

Mike S.: Under appreciated heroes and villains. If you were in charge who would you give a title to?

Doug: In answer to the first question, I've always enjoyed the inks of John Severin and Sam Grainger. Certainly Severin was a star in his own right in the 1950s, but most Bronze Age fans will remember him best as the inker over Herb Trimpe on early issues of the Incredible Hulk. Severin brought a polish to Trimpe's pencils that really did give it that throwback look to the period right before the Marvel Age dawned. Great pairing. Grainger worked into the 1970s and shows up all over the Marvel Universe. I most fondly recall his inks over a young Sal Buscema in those turn-of-the-Age Avengers tales. Again, Grainger really polished Sal's work and gave it a rich texture. Grainger also inked Dave Cockrum in the first issues of the All-New, All-Different X-Men.

Doug: As to underappreciated characters, count me among anyone who digs Kid Flash. While I don't know if Wally West could have carried his own series, he was always a favorite of mine in the Secret Society of Super-Villains and the Teen Titans revival.  Oh, and you want an underappreciated villain? I always thought the Gladiator had a great look. The whirling blades on his wrist seemed dangerous enough, but especially to him! I enjoyed his appearances in Daredevil and wished he'd crossed over into the Peter Parker or Nova books (for examples).

BAB Classic: Three Cows Shot Me Down! Avengers #89

Avengers 89 (June 1971)
"The Only Good Alien..."
Roy Thomas-Sal Buscema/Sam Grainger

NOTE:  This post was originally published on 3 October 2011. 

Doug: Welcome to what will be a two months-long examination of perhaps the seminal graphic novel at Marvel Comics. Roy Thomas' 9-part masterpiece known as "The Kree/Skrull War" is one of the oft-lauded stories of the Bronze Age, so it's fitting that we get down to business and review this mammoth here at the BAB. We'll be running posts in the series each Monday (with the exception of Avengers #93, which will run on a Tuesday (due to the fact that Halloween is on a Monday, and you know Karen will want to "monster up" on that day!). Karen and I will take turns being the "lead voice" as we move through, and today I'll drive this train. So strap in -- this should be a fun ride!

Karen: This saga means a lot to me. It's my all-time favorite comic book continued story, and I was there right as it unfolded. Avengers 92 was my first Avengers comic. Now I'm not going to say that when I first read the Kree-Skrull War, I actually understood the story -I was only six years old! But I kept going back to it, and reading it again and again. Over time, I came to see it as more than just cool super-heroes in colorful outfits; this was a true epic adventure. So you can bet your bottom dollar that I'm going into this with a biased opinion.

Doug: In case you were wondering about the title of today's post (and indeed this series), it comes from a suggestion Neal Adams made to Roy Thomas at the bottom of the splash page to Avengers #93, Adams' first issue as penciller and co-plotter. Roy had been percolating the idea of the K/S War, but felt like he was meandering with it. Neal asked if he could take it and run, and Roy concurred. Adams decided to use the Skrulls who were left as cows at the end of Fantastic Four #2; we'll see how it turned out in a few weeks, and why Adams chose that phrase as his suggested title.

Karen: From what I gather, there's a little bit of conflict between the two over who came up with what. Of course, Adams was not happy when John Buscema was brought in to wrap up the series.

Doug: We open in slam-bang mode as the Avengers (consisting only of the Vision and Quicksilver and the Scarlet Witch) come upon the Kree Captain Mar-Vell. The Avengers accost him, telling him that they mean him no harm and that he must come with them... for his own good. This inflames the seemingly distraught Captain, and it's game on. Of course Pietro takes the lead (a - because he's fast, and b - because he's just like that), but Mar-Vell socks him a good one. Next up is the Vision, but Mar-Vell evades him with a blast; when Wanda steps to the fore, it's retreat-time for the Kree. Landing on a rooftop, Mar-Vell is felled by a blast from a ray-gun... a gun fired by Rick Jones!

Karen: At this stage Mar-Vell still seems to take some pride in his Kree heritage: "Who are you to tell a man of the Kree what to-" It was surprising to see how well he fared against these Avengers, even if the fight was fairly abbreviated.

Doug: Rick doesn't feel too good about what he's done to his former "alter ego". The Avengers nonetheless get Mar-Vell to a quinjet and then whisk him away to the Cape Kennedy Hospital, where they rush him inside and get him hooked up to what looks like a high-tech hair dryer from back in the day (raise your hand if you ever went to the beauty shop with your mom and she sat under one of the things like you see on the cover of this comic).

Karen: As they head off, Wanda points out that she and her brother, being mutants, and Mar-Vell, being an alien, are all strangers in a strange land. Of course the Vision is sitting right there, and certainly he's got it harder than any of them! It's interesting that this group of Avengers is easily the most unconventional and outcast of any group before, and possibly since.

Doug:As the machines hum, Rick flashes back to how this whole thing got started. As he was playing a gig, Mar-Vell appeared to him and showed him a vision of Reed Richards adrift in the Negative Zone (see Fantastic Four #109), being hunted by Annihilus. Somehow Richards had managed to seemingly split himself into multiple images to confuse Annihilus. As Mar-Vell, also adrift in the Neg. Zone, watched as Richards made his way toward a small opening in the fabric of space, and disappeared through it. And so Mar-Vell told Rick that he had to get immediately to the headquarters of the FF.

Karen: This just reminds me that I need to get my hands on some of those pre-Starlin Captain Marvel comics. I'm not even sure how Rick and Mar-Vell got joined. I'm certain I've read it somewhere but it escapes me now. Of course it's a total rip-off (or homage, take your pick) to the original Captain Marvel and Billy Batson.

Karen: Another thing to point out is that already in this first issue, Roy is bringing in threads from other comics (Fantastic Four) and weaving them into his tapestry. By the time he was done with this story, he had done an incredible job of connecting characters and events to really explore and expand the Marvel Universe.

Doug: Rick did as he was told, but Mar-Vell suddenly ordered him to switch places. As Rick banged together the bracelets which served as the catalyst for the body-switch, Mar-Vell appeared and Rick Jones was himself exiled to the Negative Zone. Mar-Vell started into the Baxter Building, but after being confronted by a security guard chose the express route -- by flight! Landing on the 35th floor, Mar-Vell gained easy entry, and then ripped open a steel door to gain access to the Negative Zone portal room. The mission is now evident -- to figure out a way to allow Mar-Vell and Rick to occupy the same space coincidentally. As Rick screamed in fear of being watched by an unseen nemesis, Mar-Vell figured out how to open the portal. Rick jumped through, but at the same time so did someone else -- Annihilus! And at that very same minute, the Avengers arrived, serving as "got your backside" assistance to the out-of-town FF! Needless to say, a melee ensues, and it's a real free-for-all.

Karen: I don't know -it's pretty one-sided. Quicksilver bounces harmlessly off Annihilus, and for some reason, which makes absolutely no sense, Wanda's hex power can't affect him. It's only the Vision who really gives him difficulty.

Doug: The Vision orders Rick to flip the switch that allowed passage to the Neg. Zone; Rick does just that, and Annihilus begins to feel the pull of the neg-gravity. He latches onto the Vision, who goes first diamond-hard, and then intangible. As Annihilus had let up a bit, he's not ready and is sucked back into the Neg. Zone. You know, it was cool to see someone else's baddie guesting in the Avengers' mag -- I'd have liked to have seen more! In all of the confusion, Mar-Vell ducked out and snagged a quinjet. He took off for Florida and Cape Kennedy -- boy gonna hijack himself a rocket ship!

Karen: Maybe it's just because I always liked him, but doesn't it seem like the Vision was always saving the day way back when?

Doug: The Avengers give pursuit, and we come back to the present with Mar-Vell hooked to the machine. The Avengers had noticed abnormally high radiation levels left in the Baxter Building near where Mar-Vell stood. It was now a race to find the Kree Captain, and make him well. As Mar-Vell was being treated, it became apparent to his doctors that if the nega-energy wasn't entirely eradicated it could come back. The Vision offered to exchange his own solar energy with Mar-Vell if it would help. Hooked up, the process was completed, with both heroes down for the count.

Karen: That process seemed a little confused. The technician said they were almost out of power, and the Vision offered to supply his power -but the art and caption has him blasting Mar-Vell with his solar jewel! Very odd.

Doug: Cut to the Kree homeworld, where the Supreme Intelligence has encountered Ronan the Accuser, one he had formerly banished. But Ronan had returned, crushing the Supreme Intelligence's guardians. Claiming that he was now in control, Ronan is even able to activate the Kree Sentry -- as fate would have it, on ice at Cape Kennedy... but no longer!

Karen: As far as I'm concerned, this is the only Sentry!

Doug: Oh, I couldn't agree more! You may have just raised a future topic -- comic book characters who never should have existed...



Doug: And come back tomorrow for a bonus post: a little Discuss-ion!

The Mighty Marvel Try-Out Book: Avengers 71

Avengers #71 (December 1969)
"Endgame!"
Roy Thomas-Sal Buscema/Sam Grainger

Doug:  Karen and I thought it would be fun to do another series of "Marvel Firsts", although this one's sort of a do-it-ourselves.  Of the books we're going to review during the rest of September, only Marvel Spotlight #5 is actually contained in the Marvel Firsts: the 1970's series of trade paperbacks (again -- get these if you haven't already!).  It's interesting because we are certainly featuring characters (and one team - today) that were big in the '70's; however, three of our heroes perhaps enjoyed their greatest popularity in the 1990's.  So, let's get on with it and check out Roy Thomas' first dabbling with... the Invaders!

Karen: Much like how Roy would do a "preview" of the Defenders with his "Titans Three" issues of Sub-Mariner, where he teamed Namor with the Hulk and the Silver Surfer, this issue shows how long the idea for the Invaders must have been bumping around in his fair-haired noggin. Thank goodness it finally came to be in 1975.

Doug:  We open in Garrett Castle, where Dane Whitman (better known to us as the Black Knight) descends a set of stone steps to the Brazier of Truth.  He has a torch in hand, and needs to light it so that he can get the answers to pressing questions.  Sir Percy of Scandia, the original Black Knight, is summoned in a sort of weird seance.  Sir Percy bids Dane listen, and shows him what has gone before.  The Grandmaster and Kang the Conqueror have engaged in a contest of champions for the fate of the Earth.  Kang chose as his warriors his enemies, the Avengers.  To combat Earth's Mightiest Heroes, the Grandmaster created a team known as the Squadron Sinister.  Hyperion, Nighthawk, Dr. Spectrum, and the Whizzer battled the Avengers across the globe.  But the Black Knight interrupted the battle between Goliath (nee Hawkeye) and the Whizzer in the streets of London.  This wild card, in the eyes of the Grandmaster, negated the game and so another scenario for sport was crafted.  But Kang's heart was not in the battle, only in the outcome.  For what he really hoped to gain was a way to restore full life to the comatose Ravonna, his true love.  Now that the Knight knew these details, he felt better equipped to further assist his heroic allies.

Karen: It's funny, I tend to think of the Knight as being a very basic hero with minimal abilities, but he's got this whole magical background, what with communing with the spirit of his ancestor. This was drawn well, just as you'd expect. Kang's pining for Ravonna also reminds me, in a different away, of Dr. Doom's softer side, where he was always trying to save the soul of his dead mother. Just another effort by Lee, Thomas, etc. to add depth to their villains I suppose.

Doug:  Cut to the 41st Century,where Kang and the Grandmaster await the beginning of their "endgame".  Kang monitors his latest team of champions, consisting of the Vision, Yellowjacket, and the Black Panther.  These Avengers have been dropped through the timestream and have landed in 1941 Nazi-occupied Paris.  They approach German guards and despatch them handily.  However, the tension mounts and then explodes as fireballs scatter the Avengers.  Emerging through a hole in time and space step Captain America, the Sub-Mariner, and the Original Human Torch!  And what's worse -- they think they're fighting emissaries of the Nazis!  So it's game on in war torn France, as "Okay, Axis -- Here We Come!" meets "Avengers Assemble!"

 

Karen: I love that bottom panel with the two trios squaring off. I'm sure they chose to use Cap's triangular shield to differentiate him from the modern day Cap, but I think he only used that in his first issue. That's probably been retconned a dozen times over by now. In any case, it works. Subby also has slightly different trunks than we're used to- they're not scaled, and they're darker, with green highlights.

Doug:  Back in Garrett Castle, the Black Knight knows he cannot go into the past to assist his friends in Paris -- no, instead he must find a way to go into the future.  Dane Whitman is one with his ebony blade -- yet it was in the hands of the Avenger Goliath when the Grandmaster transported the Avengers to the 41st Century.  With the help of Sir Percy, the Knight concentrates and through just a little medieval magic emerges two millennia (and then some!) into the future.  As fate would have it, Whitman arrives in the very chamber the Avengers are being held in some sort of mental stasis -- and his blade is on the floor right in front of the unconscious Goliath!  Suddenly Kang's guards burst in, but  the Black Knight makes short work of them.  Now in possession of the ebony blade, and hearing a damsel in distress, the Black Knight cleaves a wall of the chamber to reveal Janet van Dyne Pym -- the Winsome Wasp!

Karen: This reminds me of the much-more drawn out sequence during Under Siege when Dane was captured and couldn't summon the sword to him. I hadn't realized before reading these two books that he could utilize the sword this way, as a sort of transportation method. It's interesting that he goes crashing through a wall to find Jan, as he'd develop an attraction to her later on. But what's up with that ugly checkered outfit she has on? That has to be one of the least appealing suits we've seen her in.

Doug:  To Paris we're returned, and match-ups have been drawn:  Cap squares off against the Panther, which is cool since T'Challa had replaced Cap on the Avengers' active roster just about 20 issues prior.  YJ and Subby duke it out, and in the best match-up -- physically and certainly symbolically -- the Vision tangles with the Torch.  The Avengers are reluctant to go all out, which is interesting as I think I'd put my money on the WWII heroes in the battle.  But as you might guess, the lesser-powered Avengers use guile and surprise to gain the upper hand, never harming their 1940's counterparts.  Hank and T'Challa finally decide that in order to win and solve the Kang problem, they have to truly defeat Cap and company.  They concoct a plan that the "Invaders" never see coming -- the intangible Vision flies low and then accelerates through the WWII boys, partially solidifying as he does.  We all know what that does...

Karen: The displays of fighting skills and agility between Cap and the Panther are exciting. There's nothing like watching two combatants whose main gifts are their athleticism. YJ and Namor seems like a terrible mismatch, as Subby has it all over YJ in raw power (watch him punch through a brick wall!) but YJ has some tricks up his sleeve -namely insects, and lots of them.The critters annoy Subby so much he flies off to find the nearest body of water, buying YJ a brief respite. The Vision and Torch match-up makes my head spin - are they different beings who've shared the same body? Is this the future 'Torch' returned to face himself, or is it more like his ancestor? It also seems appropriate that T'Challa is the one who takes the initiative and comes up with the plan to win. Why in the world didn't we see him leading the Avengers at some point?

 

Doug:  Meanwhile, in the future Kang immediately claims victory, but the Grandmaster says "not so fast"--  the first match involving the Squadron Sinister had ended in a stalemate due to the interference of the Black Knight.  So Kang cannot claim a full victory -- the Grandmaster instead makes him this offer:  Kang can be the master of life or death.  Pick one -- save the life of his beloved Ravonna, or kill the Avengers.  And wouldn't you know that at that very instant the Avengers enter... and they aren't happy.  But Captain America makes Kang a startling offer -- send the Avengers back to their own time and all will be forgiven.  Yeah, right -- that's not exactly how guys like Kang operate.  He thinks momentarily about Ravonna, and then like any egomaniac, assumes that he will himself eventually find a way to save her.  So it is the power of death that he chooses!

Karen: Kang was so close to choosing life for Ravonna -but his utter hatred of the Avengers wouldn't let him do it.  And you're right about the egotism -again, all very Doom-like. 

Doug:  We've said it 1000 times before around here -- if you're a super-baddie, and you're going to off your main enemy, JUST DO IT!!  What's all the cat-and-mouse business?  You guessed it -- Kang toys with Cap and the Panther, and even Thor.  Then he puts a hurtin' on the whole team, dropping them where they stand -- on the very edge of death!  But what he didn't count on was that the Black Knight... isn't an Avenger!  Kang's beside himself, and the Knight takes advantage of his confusion.  One home run swing of the flat side (natch) of the ebony blade, and Kang's down.  The Knight asks how he was able to do it so easily, and the Grandmaster explains that Kang had mastery only over the Avengers -- so the Knight was not under that "plan".  As Kang lay there moaning and groaning, the Grandmaster just decides to leave, sending the Avengers back to 1969 as he goes.

Karen: I know, realistically it makes no sense, other than the idea that they want their enemies to suffer so they can gloat. When you're dealing with enormous egos like this, and not common thugs, perhaps it can be forgiven. Besides, it's more exciting than a bullet to the brain. I liked how Panther and Cap charged in, and Thor protested that he should be in the vanguard! These Avengers were not short on bravery. The whole 'flat-of-my-blade' thing is tiresome but it's the problem you accept when you decide to use a sword-wielding hero in a modern super-hero setting. Unless you're fighting monsters or other non-human creatures you're stuck with non-lethal solutions, and it's somehow just less satisfactory. Although I can't complain about the Knight's look -always thought he was a groovy-looking guy. 

Doug:  Conan never needed no stinkin' flat of his blade.  Anyway, back in our "present", the team shares relief that their ordeal is over.  They also heap gratitude on their longtime ally, the Black Knight.  T'Challa suggests it first, and Thor runs with it -- the Black Knight is offered, and accepts, membership in the Avengers!  And then we get one of the iconic images of Earth's Mightiest Heroes, as Sal Buscema and Sam Grainger treat us to a pretty nifty pin-up to close the issue.

Karen: It's a happy ending, with a gorgeous pin-up. Those were the days, huh? Besides the heroes pictured (nine altogether), we still had Quicksilver and the Scarlet Witch floating in and out of the roster. Basically eleven Avengers, not counting Hulk, who I wouldn't at this point, nor Swordsman (although both would show up for Avengers #100), nor Wonder Man, who was still considered to be dead. I really like the idea of the Avengers being the elite super-hero group, with a limited roster. I wouldn't have minded seeing it stay within about 20 heroes total. Today more characters are Avengers than aren't. We've got Secret Avengers, Mighty Avengers, Uncanny Avengers, Double-Secret Probation Avengers.... it just goes on and on until there's nothing special about being an Avenger. Give me one team, and one team only. Like this one.

Doug:  I loved this story!  I generally like Avengers tales where Kang the Conqueror is involved, and this one really didn't disappoint.  A huge kudo to Roy Thomas for his scripting of the battle between "the Invaders" and the team that was sent to 1941 Paris.  It's been well-documented that the Golden Age comic books were heavily influential on a young Thomas, and he really shows his love by virtually reproducing the sort of dialogue we'd have seen way back when.  I also want to dote on the art -- those of us who loved Sal Buscema's tenure on Captain America, that would come a few years hence, get a nice taste of what that would look like.  Karen and I were privileged to receive a comment from Sam Grainger's daughter on the BAB last week, and I'll toss additional kudos his way for the inking of Sal in this story -- top-notch stuff.  This is just a really solid issue from that peak on which you look down one side at the Silver Age, and the other toward the Bronze Age.  Oh yeah -- and Spider-Man and Wolverine aren't ever going to be Avengers in my Marvel Universe!

BAB Classic: Born Only to Die?

X-Men #95 (October 1975)
"Warhunt!"
Chris Claremont-Dave Cockrum/Sam Grainger

NOTE:  This post was originally published in March 2010.

Doug: Welcome back to the conclusion of our look at the first "regular" (albeit bi-monthly) adventure of the All-New, All-Different X-Men. When last we saw our favorite mutants, they'd been blasted out of the Blackbird by the missiles of Count Nefaria - recent appropriator of the weapons of Valhalla Mountain. If the team makes it safely down, they'll have to contend with a doomsday clock Nefaria has set, threatening to unleash the entire USA missile inventory. It's certainly a precarious situation as we join the X-Men in mid-fall!

Doug: In the midst of the freefall, Cyke barks out orders to Storm and Banshee to grab X-Men and carry them down. An interesting nugget is revealed about Nightcrawler as Cyclops orders him to teleport himself to safety. We learn that Nightcrawler must exit at the same velocity he enters, so in effect he'd go "splat" no matter what -- I have to wonder... was this a Claremont idea, or did it come from Dave Cockrum, Nightcrawler's creator?

Karen: I definitely think the Nightcrawler 'physics lesson' was a Claremont bit - the guy is a science fiction buff and science geek. But does it make any sense to you that Nightcrawler, a guy probably with no formal education at all, would be spouting stuff about the the Law of Conservation of Energy? Why not just say, "When I teleport, I retain the speed I started with" or something like that? It just felt out of character.

Doug: I agree. It was almost like someone else had told him the explanation at some point. You're probably spot on about his education, as it's my impression that Nightcrawler never mutated -- he was born with those elfish looks.

Doug: We see some bitterness (mid-air bickering is great, isn't it?) directed from Colossus toward Wolverine, and Colossus tells that he can get down on his own. His is certainly the best landing. Eventually all mutants make it back to terra firma and are accounted for. Thunderbird wastes no time in getting under Cyclops' skin, referring again to him as "One-Eye". I'll say again that Claremont had his finger on the pulse of this team in the same manner that Stan and Jack had the Fantastic Four all those years ago. Nightcrawler is ordered to teleport inside the mountain, and does so.

Karen: In these early issues, Colossus certainly seemed very self-assured. How could he know he would survive such a fall? Were they trying to show his bravery, or even a little cockiness?

Doug: One could argue that the Soviet government had tested his limits -- after all, if Piotr's brother was a cosmonaut, they would have known about him. But then, that doesn't make sense, because when Xavier came to ask him for his assistance, the word "defection" was never used. Curious...

Doug: Once inside the mountain, Nightcrawler is engaged by Frog-Man of Nefaria's Ani-Men and promptly insults him by referring to him as Herr Frosch. A simple teleport to the rear, a solid shot to the jaw, and Nightcrawler was on his way again. Triggering a door in the mountainside, Kurt is reunited with the team. Entering the mountain, however, proves dangerous as Nefaria attacks the X-Men first with gas, then with entranced Air Force troops.

Karen: Nightcrawler's easy defeat of Frog-Man is pretty much what I would expect for all the Ani-Men. They are completely out-classed. But this is only the third outing for the team, so we'll roll with it. We get a very good example of how powerful Storm is when she creates a flood in the base (!) to wash away all those hypnotized troops. I love the expression Cockrum drew on her face - amused and pleased with herself. Behind her, it's obvious that Cyclops is realizing that these new X-Men of his are a big change from his old buddies.

Doug: I thought Cockrum's art was better in this issue than last, perhaps because of the inks of Sam Grainger (Grainger had done a bang-up job over Sal Buscema in Avengers in the late 1960's). It still wasn't as good as I'd seen of Cockrum in other stories (later X-Men, Legion, and his short but fine run on the Avengers), but it was better than #94.

Doug: Shortly after Storm disperses the soldiers, the Ani-Men attack en masse. It's a good chance to again showcase the abilities of the team, and the Ani-Men match up well in terms of powers. The X-Men prove victorious when they switch off their natural enemies, and do some cross-butt-kicking (with a little teamwork thrown in here and there). Once the dust settles, it's apparent that Banshee and Thunderbird are going to have to sit out the next step, as they were knocked out by Gort the Gorillaman. So it's off to find the Count!

Karen: "Gort" - you know those guys had seen The Day the Earth Stood Still! But I love a good gorilla. Nefaria is such a wimp here, really doing next to nothing in the story; but I guess that's what masterminds do -they leave the dirty work for their henchmen.

Doug: And don't think Nefaria didn't know they were coming! Nefaria makes it into a Marine Harrier and takes off. Banshee and Thunderbird, freshly awakened, pursue and Thunderbird leaps onto the plane as it roars out of the hangar. Banshee takes to the air, screaming at John Proudstar to let go and let Banshee catch him. Thunderbird refuses, and pounds the cockpit in an attempt to get at Nefaria. Meanwhile, the other X-Men have reached the control room and attempt to disable Nefaria's countdown to missile release. Suddenly, Professor Xavier psychically contacts Cyclops to inform him that the battle with the Ani-Men had destroyed the launch capability. He also tells the team to get out to assist Banshee.

Karen: Yeah, you know things are not going to turn out well.

Doug: Finally bursting through the cockpit, Thunderbird bashes the controls until the jet begins to spiral out of control. As Xavier confronts him in an effort to implore him to get off the plane, Thunderbird defiantly continues his assault. Soon the jet explodes, apparently killing both Proudstar and Nefaria. On the ground a horrified Banshee tells Cyclops how he begged Thunderbird to get off, but he would not. A single red feather clings to the wreckage, now strewn across a ravine. 

Doug: I felt the ending of this story was a little rushed. The build-up was done well, and an appropriate amount of time was given to the jet scene to enhance the drama. However, I thought that finishing the scene with three panels where Cyclops is quite callous toward the death of a teammate, and then the team apparently turning to just walk off into the sunset, was not only in poor taste but seemingly done without much emotion. To be blunt, it was a real downer on top of a real downer -- and I felt that way even when I first read this as a 9-year old.Karen: Due to the vagaries of the comics distribution system back then, I didn't actually get to read this issue until many years later. All I knew was I opened up issue 96 and Thunderbird was dead. Whaaat??? Although he'd only been around a couple of issues, I really liked the character, in part because my grandmother was Sac and Fox Indian and I'd never seen an Indian superhero before, so it seemed really cool. But to find out he was dead...it was a big time bummer.

Karen: But I did eventually read the story itself, and it still left me cold. Sure, the guy had feelings of inadequacy, and he was a troubled Viet Nam vet, but why kill himself? It was only when I began to read interviews with Claremont and Cockrum that I learned the truth: Thunderbird was killed because he was redundant. I pulled out my copy of The X-Men Companion volume 1, and in the Dave Cockrum interview, when asked about Thunderbird's death, he had this to say:"We didn't know what to do with Thunderbird because we never thought him out. It was easier to kill him off than think him out." When asked about if he was too similar to Wolverine, Cockrum responded, "He duplicated both Wolverine (and Colossus)...Almost everybody in the group did something he did, and he seemed kind of superfluous." The shock value of killing off a character so early in the book was also mentioned as a factor. This I think owes a large part to what Gerry Conway did with killing Gwen Stacy. Remember, Gwen's death had only occurred a couple of years prior, and was considered shocking at the time. After that, it seemed like everybody was killing off characters.

Doug: This was my first issue of X-Men, and to be honest I can't remember if I'd seen Amazing Spider-Man #'s 121-122 at this point. Regardless, the death was indeed shocking to me. I wonder if they'd chosen to make Thunderbird the champion of mutant civil rights, how he'd have grown. Obviously the backstory of the history of Native Americans would have tied in nicely, as would his deep mistrust of the federal government. I did think that the epilogue to this in X-Men 96 was good, and somewhat of a tribute to Thunderbird's loss. Perhaps we'll get to that issue someday.

Karen: That's an interesting thought. I had a different idea: what if Thunderbird had just quit the team in issue 95, when he got in the fight with Cyclops, and years later he wound up being recruited by Magneto? I think it would have opened some intriguing story possibilities -former ally turned enemy and that sort of thing. He certainly had enough anger in him to "go to the dark side". Now his younger brother is running around in the X-Men black ops group, X-Force, as Warpath. I haven't seen much of him but his look is reminiscent of his brother's.

Giant-Size July: Marvel Two-In-One #20

Marvel Two-In-One #20 (October 1976)
"Showdown At Sea"
Roy Thomas-Sal Buscema/Sam Grainger

Doug: Yeah, we know this is a "regular sized" issue, but it's also the conclusion to the 3-part opus Roy Thomas began to weave in Fantastic Four Annual #11, tying the FF into a story involving Marvel's World War II-era heroes: the Invaders and the Liberty Legion. We'll have more oversized goodness for you next Monday. And seriously, can you deny the Kirby-coolness of a white cover with floating heads? On to our final chapter...

Doug: When we left Bashful Benjy at the conclusion of Marvel Two-In-One Annual #1, he had vaulted into the sky from a bent flagpole. His target? Why, only a giant flying swastika, put together with Nazi know-how as well as technology stolen by a bunch of super-powered Ratzis: Sky Shark, Master Man, and Merrano the U-Man! These do-badders had lately been opposed by Marvel's "newest" WWII sensations, the Liberty Legion. Ben now entered the fray after a lot of sideline-standing, and once he lands he's going to meet our newest refugee from Thomas' Invaders mag.

Karen: I wonder what the story is behind this odd three-parter? I can't help but think that maybe it was originally intended to be told in just the two annuals, but somehow stretched out into this regular-sized issue. It's certainly an odd situation.
Doug: It is an odd bit of continuity. I thought a comment from frequent BAB reader Edo Bosnar about Marvel Two-In-One Annual #1 violating that unwritten Annual rule of being a nice done-in-one story was interesting. I'd not given that a thought. But yes, this tale's long enough to be in a graphic novel or treasury edition!

Doug: Once on the airship, Ben discovered that its pilot was the Nazi mastermind (is that correct, because it's pretty punny) Brain Drain. Ben's of course shocked at the look of this... thing, and who wouldn't be? We then get the obligatory ~2-page recap before Ben begins to tear the flying swastika apart. As he's ripping into it, though, it obviously begins to spin out of control, clipping several buildings along the New York skyline. Finally diverted out to sea, the airship returns to its base, the same base where Sky Shark had found refuge in the previous chapter. But once down, Ben is greeted by Brain Drain's allies -- the aforementioned super-powered Nazis! Ben puts up a fight, feigns unconsciousness, and then rips through all of them once he's lured them in close. Sky Shark offers just enough resistance through the use of his pistol to allow Master Man and Merrano the ins they need to keep pummeling the Thing. And then the cavalry arrives!

Karen: Oh my. Der Brain Drain. Look, I like 50s sci fi movies with disembodied brains, but this guy, with his little eyes bobbing around, was just goofy. In light of all our discussion previously about Ben being Jewish, I thought his fight with Master Man, and the dialogue there, was pretty interesting. Master Man: "I suspect you are not...Aryan!" Ben: "That's the kinda bull we're fightin' this war to get rid of! Me, I'm just a pure-bred human bein'..." Again, it's just a simple comment that any hero might make, but if you interpret it in the light of Ben being Jewish, it adds another layer to it.
Doug: Yep. I can't recall if, after writing the synopsis for this issue, I went back to the MTIO Annual #1 post and inserted the line of questioning about Ben's heritage. Perhaps I thought of it at the time -- but you're certainly right in that there have been plenty of signs of Roy's perhaps-cloaked intentions throughout this entire story.

Doug: Sal Buscema has a couple of really nice larger panels in this story. At the beginning of this scene the appearance of the Nazi muscle is well-rendered; straightforward, but exciting. Here we see the Liberty Legion descending from the Thin Man's airplane to join the fray. It's good stuff! Once on the base, the LL begins to kick some major butt. This is a different sort of battle than the Invaders would fight -- this group doesn't have Namor's power or the advantage of the Torches flying and heat manipulating. We get a pretty good brouhaha, with the Legion displaying their powers (don't you think Roy was pushing hard for an ongoing series with these guys? It's too bad the mini-series hadn't been invented yet).

Karen: Yeah, the Liberty Legion is to the Invaders what Cap's Kooky Quartet was to the founding Avengers team: under-powered! Blue Diamond is tough, but I don't think he was super-strong; the Patriot's just an average guy; two members, Red Raven and Miss America, are mainly fliers; the Whizzer definitely could fit in with the Invaders though. Not so sure about Jack Frost or especially the Thin Man.
Doug: Ben continues to pound away at the swastika airship, until Brain Drain blasts off and away. He's followed shortly by Sky Shark in his plane, and the battle basically ends. When the Watcher reappears, Ben's pretty certain that the danger's over... as that dope Sky Shark had been flaunting the second half of the vibranium cylinder that started this whole mess, it was a pretty easy grab for Ben during the fracas. So with what he'd come back in time for, good-byes are said, the time platform's set for 1976, and it's off to the future (or present). Once back, Ben has some final words with the Watcher. Once he fades out, the rest of the FF finally burst into the laboratory. Ben nonchalantly tosses the reunited cylinder to Reed and heads off to find Alicia, for what we hope was a happy ending!

Karen: This issue was a fast read, especially compared to the other two. All in all, not a bad story, although I think the FF Annual was heads and shoulders above the second and third parts. I just looked at this issue (and the MTIO Annual) and kept thinking, "This is just ridiculous."
Doug: I liked this story, despite the silly parts and Roy's sometimes over-wordiness. It was fun to see the WWII heroes, and Ben's just a great team-up guy. Marvel really mined gold with their two leads, as opposed to DC's choices of Batman and Superman. While they are without a doubt the Distinguished Competition's biggest stars, neither of their personalities are even close to Spidey's or the Thing's. I think that's why Marvel could pair those guys with just about any B- or C-lister in their stable. Those two guys are just people people!

Karen: I've always kind of thought of Ben's role in the Marvel Universe as 'everybody's favorite uncle'. He's the kind of guy that is easy to get along with, doesn't have any airs or pretensions, and is a big softy at heart. You could team him up with anyone from Cap to Thor to Man-Thing -Ben got along with 'em all!

Savages and Sun Gods

Astonishing Tales #4 (Feb. 1970)"The Sun God!"
Writer: Gerry Conway
Artist: Barry Smith
Inker: Sam Grainger

Karen: Way back in February of last year, I reviewed Astonishing Tales 3 (see it here). I've finally acquired the following issues and decided to read and review them. I'll just be looking at the Ka-Zar portion of this split comic. Not that I don't like Dr. Doom, but I find the Ka-Zar tale more interesting. It would be great if Marvel would collect these stories in a TPB. It would be worth it for the early Barry Smith art alone.

Karen: The mad priestess Zaladane has brought war to the Savage Land. Flying in on pterodactyls, she and her people reign fire on the peaceful green-skinned Vala-Kuri people. Ka-Zar is miles away and needs some speedy transportation. He wrestles down a unicorn(!!) and heads off for the city, leaving behind his buddy Tongah and Garokk, the petrified man, who appears to be made of stone; unlike Stone Boy of the Legion of Substitute Heroes, Garokk is quite mobile. In turn, Tongah leaves Garokk, who is left to muse about youth abandoning age and age burying youth. He's that kinda guy.

Karen: Zaladane and her forces are wreaking havoc on the poor Vala Kuri, who have neither the means nor desire to fight back. But along comes an enraged Ka-Zar, who launches himself at one of the pterodactyl riders, bringing man and beast down to the ground. He quickly punches out the rider and takes his flaming device, while Zabu works on the dinosaur. Ka-Zar also waxes a little philosophical here - surely the very young Gerry Conway expressing himself. I've noticed that his early stories seem much more like he's writing a novel rather than a comic.

Karen: In the meantime Garokk has reached the Sun God shrine where he was first transformed. He reaches out to touch it and there is a strange energy enveloping him. A very bizarre-looking Tyrannosaurus Rex comes lurching towards him, and he blasts it away. This was a well-composed sequence by Smith. While Ka-Zar and newly arrived friend Tongah face down Zaladane, a giant fiery head appears in the sky -it is Garokk, now completely changed into the Sun God. He demands an end to the fighting and uses his powers (apparently pretty god-like ones) to destroy all the fire-blasting weapons. The invaders stop attacking -all that is but Zaladane, who is infuriated by this development. She sweeps down and grabs Ka-Zar in her mount's talons and flies off with him! Can you say, to be continued?

Karen: This was a real rip-snorting yarn. I've always liked the Savage Land. It has so many possibilities. Gerry Conway does a nice job here of pacing the story. Although the unicorn seemed fairly out of place, I have to say. I wonder if that was his idea, or Smith's? But otherwise, we have all the elements -the hero, the evil queen, the wizard/god -that make this a classic tale of fantasy- adventure.
Karen: It's really fun to look at this early work of Barry Smith. It's instantly recognizable, but it's also clearly still Smith learning his craft. He has a gift for portraying the fantastic, but at times his figures and especially faces are a bit off. The T-Rex mentioned earlier is a good example of this; it looks almost more-bug-like than reptilian. But Smith still has a very appealing style which shows wonderful flashes of the brilliance he would eventually achieve.

Giant-Size July: Marvel Two-In-One Annual #1

Marvel Two-In-One Annual #1 (1976)
"Their Name is LEGION!"
Roy Thomas-Sal Buscema/Sam Grainger/George Roussos/John Tartag

Doug: Giant-Size July is in full swing, all! Today's post is part two of a 3-parter to kick things off, and then we'll leave you with a quite-grandiose story to finish this off in a few weeks. If you'll recall, Ben had some concerns at the end of last week's story -- when the Fantastic Four returned from their WWII adventure, they'd only secured half of the vibranium that they thought had gone missing. As the rest of the team left to celebrate and return to normalcy (whatever that is), Ben stayed in the lab -- when suddenly the Watcher reappeared. Yep, trouble still brewing. As Karen mentioned last week, these stories took place shortly after the Watcher had a renewed vow toward non-interference in terran affairs. So Ben was left to play 20 questions with the big, bald galoot.

Karen: Don't ya just love how Reed created a door that is so secure even he can't open it? Now that's a genius for you.
Doug: Roy Thomas and the artists give readers a 5-page recap of the events of Fantastic Four Annual #11, which must have been helpful as it's my understanding that this story came out a few months after that first installment. All of the high points are hit, so new readers should have felt caught up immediately. I'm not a big fan of "wasting" pages on lengthy recaps, but I've noticed that in the Bronze Age this was more often than not the policy. I think give how inaccessible comics can seem today, this was indeed the right course of action for publishers back in the days of our youth. Anyone should have felt that they could pretty easily find their entry-level with these stories.

Karen: I have to say, I felt that recap went on a few pages too long. Maybe it's because I read the first part of this story just a couple of weeks ago, but it seemed excessive. I can't help but think that they could have done a better job condensing it.
Doug: Ah, yes, but as the guy who volunteered to do the synopsis of this particular issue, I was much grateful that those were five pages I didn't have to synopsize!

Doug: So Ben and the Watcher get down to the guessing game, and Ben shows what may seem to some a hefty share of brains and deductive powers. But c'mon -- the guy was a pilot, and supposedly a pretty good one at that. I think Ben was always smarter than he gave himself credit for being. Ben begins to look at a viewer that Reed had used in the previous issue, one that helped them determine changes in New York City's skyline that originally got them thinking about the past. When Ben notices that the World Trade Center has blinked off the viewer (seeing events like that in comic books of the past always gives me pause, given the recent past of our lives), so he surmises that big changes must still be afoot in the past he thought he knew. The Watcher gives him a wry smile, and Ben senses that he's onto something. By the way, Ben's sealed himself inside the lab, so the rest of the FF are outside dealing with a timelock. As they keep working through Ben's hypotheses, Ben finally determines that some sort of "time wedge" (OK, works for me I guess) must have split the cylinder of vibranium in half. Half of it landed in Nazi-occupied Europe, but the other half... Well, only way to find out is to head out on the time platform, and see where it lands. Ben shoves the half of vibranium that he has into the machine in hopes that it will locate its mate, and away we go!

Karen: That time wedge -and its accompanying drawing -was just an indication of how kooky this whole drama would be. It really doesn't make any sense at all. Does this mean that the reality Ben goes off to is different than the one he went to with his team-mates? I have no idea.
Doug: Ben lands in the middle of Times Square, with a thud. But it's not his Times Square, but that of his youth! Naturally the citizens are amazed and a bit scared that a large orange-scaled creature has just been deposited in their midst, so New York's Finest step in. Ben's immediately befriended by a bright young man named Johnny Romita. Fortunately for Ben, this story takes place during the brief time he wore the exo-skeleton, so he's able to remove his helmet and show his face. This serves to initially placate the police, but when questioning begins to go awry, Ben of course loses his temper. In an attempted show of "I'm not going to hurt you", Ben hoists a car over his head. Well, a show of that kind of strength sets off the police, and this suddenly ain't looking good. The festivities are interrupted, however, by an air raid siren. Ben then notices a crawling message on a building marquee calling for "the Liberty Legion". Ben mutters to himself that he doesn't know anything about it. What did you think of that? Whether he and Reed were in Europe at this time in the War of not, I'd think that back in the 1940's people would have known about super-powered heroes...

Karen: Ben picking up the car to show he's not a menace is just so dang stupid. I guess we have to inject some action into the story somehow but really. As for him not recognizing the LL, I think the main reason would be that they are not well-known heroes, but 2nd and 3rd stringers. I have to say though, I always dug the Patriot's costume. Those primary colors, the helmet, the eagle emblem -it all works for me.Doug: In regard to your question about which timeline (above), I have no idea if it was the same reality or not. I guess if it was a different reality, then that would explain why Ben had never heard of the Liberty Legion. However, it borders on a "DC Multiverse" sort of quagmire, doesn't it?

Doug: Just as the air raid siren warned, a fleet of Nazi fighters suddenly appears, followed very shortly by a gang of costumed do-gooders! I was in on the ground floor of Invaders #'s 5-6 and Marvel Premiere #'s 29-30 back in the day, and despite the Don Heck and Frank Robbins art that populated those stories, I was pretty excited about the Liberty Legion. So that Roy was attempting to flesh out the team by using them here was A-OK with me. You know, I made a comment in one of our last Side-by-Sides that the Marvel Chronicle stated that Roy was leery about creating new characters, as he feared they'd become quite successful; in the days before creator rights/royalties, he was concerned that he could lose potential earnings. So his solution was to dredge up old names and characters from Marvel's past and re-use them. The Liberty Legion is a great example of that philosophy -- to this youngster, they were as fresh as anything created in the Bronze Age.

Karen: Of course, Roy is also a huge fan of the Golden Age, much as we are of the Silver and Bronze, so it's only natural that he'd like to write stories about characters from that period.
Doug: A Nazi called the Sky Shark is leading the raid on NYC, and as the Liberty Legion springs into action, our creative team does a nice job of not only identifying each character but also giving as a feel for what they can do. There's a little characterization, and Roy does a fair job throughout this story of adding on to what he gives us here. But by and large, this team is somewhat formulaic. Ben decides he wants in on the action, and the only way to get in on it is to get up in the air. Only way to do that is to launch himself, and the only way to do that is by slinging himself from a bent flagpole. So he gets to the top of the Times Building by clawing his way up the exterior, only to be opposed by the Patriot on the roof. The Whizzer soon arrives, but their attention continues to be on the dogfight. Sky Shark determines that with the interference of these heroes he cannot accomplish his mission, so flies off over the Atlantic, to a hidden base. Back to our protagonists, more introductions are made, and by this time new readers should have felt pretty comfortable.

Karen: Unfortunately, mid-way through this story, it's become evident that this part two has none of the energy and excitement of the first part. As you say, very formulaic.
Doug: On the base we get a brief origin of Sky Shark, and a cliffhanger as the dastardly villain shows his Japanese accomplice the weapon that "will pave the way for total victory by the Axis Powers!" Back in New York, the Liberty Legion has been dropped off in upstate New York, site of the secret development of Allied weapons. The heroes feel that they'd best get up there to assist in guarding the new technology. Of course they arrive mere moments too late, as the compound is already under siege, by Master Man! A fracas breaks out, and the Aryan menace makes short work of Blue Diamond, Miss America, and the Whizzer. Master Man is able to escape with new glass cockpit tech.

Karen: I have to say, Sky Shark and his Axis pal 'Slicer' are two of the lamest villains I've ever seen, and surprisingly, look like caricatures rather than what I expect from Sal Buscema. I enjoyed Master Man's appearance here more, although he easily defeats the three Legionnaires.
Doug: As this is a team story, it's only natural that everyone gets split up -- talk about formulaic! Red Raven and Jack Frost make their way to another installation, only to encounter Merrano, the U-Man. I liked seeing all of these super-baddies from the Invaders series. U-Man's come for a prototype jet engine, and despite heroic efforts he makes off with the goods. In the sky, the Thin Man again encounters Sky Shark, but all of this goes for naught, as the Nazis come out ahead in all battles. And what did they want all of this stuff for? Why, just to finish off their BIG FLYING SWASTIKA, that's not rotating over New York! And that flag pole? Yep, Ben's flexed it and launched himself right into the Big Apple's sky, at that flying "hunk a' junk" -- it's Clobberin' Time! To be concluded...
Karen: OK -a giant flying swastika? I will suspend my disbelief for a lot of things, but this is too much. THAT is their master weapon? Oy. Another disappointing aspect to this story is the fact that Ben barely appears in it. Why couldn't he have gone with one of the teams? I really enjoyed the first part in the FF annual, but this annual was a big let down.

Doug: I'll agree with you that this story wasn't as good as the first, and that this particular installment dragged on a bit. Roy could be so wordy! But when you reflect on the story, on one had it seems like there was a lot going on, but then again there weren't all too many scene-shifts. I found myself trying to view this through my 10-year old eyes, and when I could do that (certainly, all of the warts you've cited were visible to me, too) I had more fun. I did my read about 10 days before my re-read when I framed out this post. The second time around (which would have been the third time I read the story) I laughed off some of the silly stuff. And in regard to Ben's somewhat-absence from the story -- this book screams of Marvel's cross-marketing, doesn't it? A pity the Liberty Legion never caught on; stories set in the past have so many possibilities, and the skies wouldn't have been nearly so crowded as they were in the Marvel Age.

Doug: I want to ask you a question -- maybe you know this, because I am not certain. I know that there was a retcon/revelation around a decade ago that Ben Grimm is Jewish. Are you aware if that was ever hinted at earlier? I ask, because as I've read these first two issues in our little summer trilogy (to be concluded next Monday), one could certainly explain Ben's passions against the Nazis and their symbols in this regard. Now, he's also a veteran with combat experience, so one could argue that is the source of his extreme consternation. What sayest thou?

Karen: As far as I know, nothing was ever said about Ben's heritage until that issue of FF (#56, vol.3). It's been said that Kirby and/or Lee intended for Ben to be Jewish but I don't know if that's ever been said in an interview with either of them (anybody out there have any direct evidence?). I don't think I ever thought about it as a kid -let's face it, until the 70s and later, pretty much all our heroes seemed to be WASPs. But I think it is a nice touch to the character. As far as his animosity towards the Axis goes, I assume we can chalk it up to Ben's moral strength and his outrage at the things the Nazis did. But reading these stories now, with the idea that Ben is Jewish, does add an extra dimension to it.