Super Blog Team-Up: The Top 10 Bronze Age Characters (x2!)

Karen: Today we're taking part in another Super-Blog Team-Up, the sixth in fact, and this time around, as you can tell from the logo above, the topic is Top Ten lists. For our contribution, Doug and I decided to choose the Top Ten Characters Born of the Bronze Age. Now since we're both mainly Marvelites, we stuck with Marvel characters, and heroes; and Doug proposed a little twist: he picked out female characters, while I chose male ones.

Karen: For my criteria, I considered things like impact and influence, longevity, and aesthetic appeal. Admittedly, these are subjective determinations, but in making my choices, I did try to give them numerical scores. In some cases however, I went with my gut: how could I deny that Wolverine deserved the top spot on my list? This is not a list of my favorites (Punisher would never make a list of my favorite characters) but a list of those I think have proven to be the most important Marvel Bronze Age male heroes for a variety of reasons. I left out licensed characters so you won’t see Conan or Rom. Also, after discussion with my esteemed colleague, we decided that some characters, such as Beast and Warlock, despite having their beginnings in the Silver Age, had been so thoroughly changed in the Bronze Age as to be completely different incarnations, and could be eligible for this list. So without any more jabbering, here’s my top ten:


1. Wolverine
1st Appearance: Incredible Hulk # 180 (here's our review of Hulk #181) (November 1974)
Creators: Roy Thomas, John Romita Sr., Len Wein, Herb Trimpe

Yes, he’s insanely over-exposed but there’s no denying that of all the characters created at Marvel during the Bronze Age, he’s the only one that can be said to rival the popularity of any of the original Silver Age creations. What made him so great in the Bronze Age? A mysterious past, a bad attitude, an unpredictability that made him exciting. His powers were also unique – claws? And he actually cut people? Perhaps it was the beginning of the end of the Bronze Age and Wolverine was the harbinger of the Grim and Gritty era, with his bloodlust. But at his best, he was a fascinating anti-hero with an evolving personality.

2. Punisher

1st Appearance: Amazing Spider-Man #129 (February 1974)
Creators: Gerry Conway, John Romita Sr., Ross Andru

In some ways, the Punisher is similar to Wolverine. He’s an anti-hero as well, even more likely to kill than the mutant berserker. His origin was inspired by both pulp books and films like Death Wish and Dirty Harry, where vigilantes took the law into their own hands. This had a strong appeal in the 70s (and still does today).He was ridiculously popular for a couple of decades and inspired a lot of copycats, although he’s cooled off lately. Even so, he’s continued to hang around and is right below Wolvie as far as his overall impact and longevity for a Bronze Age character. Plus, you gotta love that John Romita Sr. costume design. The skull covering the entire torso –a classic.

3. Luke Cage

1st Appearance: Hero for Hire #1 (June 1972)
Creators: Archie Goodwin, John Romita Sr., George Tuska

Like so many others on this list, Cage was born out of a fad –the blaxploitation films of the early 70s. But he’s outlived those films and continued to be a significant player in the Marvel Universe. Cage was the first Black super-hero to have his own title, and this distinction automatically makes him an impact character. He frequently guest-starred in other titles and later teamed up with Iron Fist for a terrific buddy comic that ran for many years. Throughout his iterations, his strong personality has defined him –Lord knows his costumes have never been winners.

4. Adam Warlock
1st Appearance (as Him): Fantastic Four #66 (September 1967)
1st Appearance (as Adam Warlock): Marvel Premiere #1 (April 1972)
Creators: Jack Kirby, Stan Lee, Roy Thomas, Gil Kane, Jim Starlin

Although he first appeared as a modern reimagining of Frankenstein courtesy of Lee and Kirby, the character of Him would soon be radically transformed, first by Roy Thomas and Gil Kane, and yet again, even more substantially, by Jim Starlin. Warlock is the poster boy for cosmic hero at Marvel, and the outgrowth of cosmic characters to this day owe no small debt to him, and also to Starlin’s other work with Captain Marvel. Thanos is one of the most popular villains in comics, and despite the Captain facing him first, it was his conflict with Warlock that thrust him into the limelight. Warlock is perpetually being killed and reborn it seems, to suit whatever needs Marvel has for him, but he’s rarely off the map for long.

5. Ghost Rider
1st Appearance: Marvel Spotlight #5 (August 1972)
Creators: Gary Friedrich, Roy Thomas, Mike Ploog

Here’s a character that gets on the list mainly because he’s managed to hang on for so damn long. I think the major appeal is the visual: the demonic cyclist is a winner. But I have to say, personally I've never been a big fan of the character. I read the Johnny Blaze books somewhat regularly in the 70s and never thought they were very good.When Ploog was drawing the book, at least it looked brilliant. But it suffered from constantly changing creative teams. Ghost Rider also   slides also into the monster/horror category, and it seems difficult for writers to figure out what to do with him. But he’s had staying power, there’s no denying that. He’s even had a couple of terrible movies made (Nicholas Cage? Really?). So that longevity, and his general recognition factor, earns him a spot on the list.

 6. The Beast

1st Appearance (human form): X-Men #1 (September 1963)
1st Appearance (furry form): Amazing Adventures #11 (March 1972)
Creators: Stan Lee, Jack Kirby, Roy Thomas, Gerry Conway, Tom Sutton, Steve Englehart

The Beast, like Warlock, is another character who was so completely transformed in the 70s as to almost be an entirely different character. In an attempt to ‘jazz up’ the hero, he was given a truly animalistic look. Along with the visual change, writer Steve Englehart also expanded his character, taking the Beast from a brainy nerd who constantly dropped five syllable words to a more complex soul who had an appreciation and knowledge of arts and culture as well –and more of a wild side. His zany wit would help loosen up the Avengers when he joined –the first X-Men to do so (back when that actually meant something). After a long tenure with that team, Beast would spend time with the Defenders, and then bounce between the X-folks and the Avengers. He’s been counted as one of the most brilliant minds in the Marvel Universe and he’s still going strong today.

7. Nightcrawler
1st Appearance: Giant-Size X-Men #1 (May 1975)
Creators: Dave Cockrum, Len Wein

The two mutants at positions 7 and 8 on the list were a very close call for me. Nightcrawler came out slightly ahead of Colossus based primarily on the strength of his personality, and the great costume design of Dave Cockrum. It’s no surprise that the core team of new-new X-Men from Giant-Size X-Men #1 all make Doug and my lists. These guys were winners- well, except for poor Thunderbird. He never got a chance. Nightcrawler from the very beginning had a well-defined personality, showy powers, and a cool costume. He’s been dead but he’s been brought back. He’s just too darn likable.

8. Colossus
1st Appearance: Giant-Size X-Men #1 (May 1975)
Creators: Dave Cockrum, Len Wein

The Russian mutant is a little less interesting than his fellow team-mates but there’s no denying he’s exciting in action. Plus, he’s just a great big nice guy. Like Nightcrawler, he was killed off and brought back (what is it with X-Men and death?). Colossus continues to exert a presence in the Marvel U.

9. Iron Fist
1st Appearance: Marvel Premiere #15 (May 1974)
Creators: Roy Thomas, Gil Kane

Like his later partner, Luke Cage, Iron Fist was born of a fad, from the flood of martial arts movies in the late 60s/early 70s. Throw in some mysticism and a funky outfit and a grade B star is born. It didn't hurt that his early series was written by Chris Claremont and drawn by John Byrne. His later partnership with Cage (aka Power Man) is fondly remembered. And he has regained popularity recently. 

10. Deathlok
1st Appearance: Astonishing Tales #25 (August 1974)
Creators: Rich Buckler, Doug Moench


The post-apocalyptic cyborg gets the nod here because it’s a concept that just won’t die. Besides the original character created by Rich Buckler and Doug Moench, it’s been revisited a couple more times in the comics, and even an ersatz version of Deathlok (it looks so terrible) has popped up on the Agents of SHIELD TV show. The original story that ran in Astonishing Tales was sheer punk, not your usual Marvel fare –except, in 70s, you never knew what you’d get from Marvel! Oh, how I miss those days. Deathlok was decidedly different and still resonates.

Karen: After composing my list, I thought it was interesting that everything on it was from 1972-1975 –a particularly fertile period of time for Marvel. There were a number of characters I left off that quite frankly might have made the list, if I’d been in a different mood, or done it on a different day: Moonknight, Shang-Chi, and Nova all came close. But I’m satisfied with the ten heroes I've selected.

Doug: I created a list of nominees, and then decided to get a bit formulaic for the purpose of narrowing my list. I'd originally come up with 20 characters, mostly Marvel (Dawnstar was the most prominent DC lady I had off the top of my head). If I didn't know the first appearance of the character I looked that up, followed by the character's creators. Next I went to the Comic Book Database for the chronological listing of the character's appearances, notably in the Bronze Age. And that's where my parting of the ways came with certain characters. For example, Tigra was on my initial list, but when I got to looking at her resume', I realized that the Frightful Four story that ran in Fantastic Four #s 177-184 was my primary encounter with the character until the West Coast Avengers ongoing series (which largely fell outside the Bronze Age, and which I generally loathe). So away she went!

Here's my very non-scientific list, ranked 1st to 10th. If you're looking for subjective, you've come to the right place!

1. Phoenix

1^st appearance: Uncanny X-Men #101 (1976)
Created by Chris Claremont and Dave Cockrum
Key appearances: X-Men #101-137

As with Karen's list, some of the characters below were actually created in the Silver Age but reached new prominence in the Bronze Age. Jean Grey fits into that category. When you think about it, her story arc truly ran from her introduction/makeover in X-Men #101 to her death at the end of the "Dark Phoenix Saga". While she wasn't always at the forefront of the team's adventures, the running backstory that led up to her ultimate fate kept readers waiting anxiously for the next month's issue. Had Marvel allowed her to stay dead, her legend might be even greater. At any rate, her swansong ranks among the top two or three stories of the entire era.

2. Storm

1^st appearance: Giant-Size X-Men #1 (1975)
Created by Dave Cockrum
Key appearances: Giant-Size X-Men #1, Uncanny X-Men #94-142

If the story surrounding Phoenix was the most notable adventure of the All-New, All-Different X-Men, Storm may have been the most important member -- yes, even beyond Wolverine. Now hold on just a minute... Sure, Wolverine was the break-out star of the group and really took on a life of his own. But Storm supplanted Cyclops as team leader, and for many people's money became the team's anchor. My favorite vignette involving Storm was in issue #113 when she frees her teammates from Magneto's bounds by using lock picks hidden in her headdress. It was a nice bit of organic character development on the part of Chris Claremont, but even moreso showed that the team's most powerful member (after Phoenix) could use her mind and practical skills to make a difference.Statuesque and beautiful, Storm was one of my favorites on that team.

3. Elektra

1^st appearance: Daredevil #168
Created by Frank Miller
Key appearances: Daredevil #168-181

I'll be honest. I don't have an affinity whatsoever for Elektra. Truth be told, it was years after the fact until I read the run of her appearances in Daredevil. But as with Phoenix, her death at the time resonated with fans, and if this is a Top 10 list of Bronze Age characters, her impact during our timeframe cannot be discounted. Elektra embodies the changes wrought by Frank Miller, and as we discussed a couple of weeks ago, Miller's changes to the DD mythos were perhaps the most radical character revision of all time. Elektra, then, deserves some serious notice on this list. Of course she's still around, most notably getting kicked in the crotch by Luke Cage in what was my swansong from buying new comics.

4. Ms. Marvel

1^st appearance: Ms. Marvel #1 (1977); as Carol Danvers Marvel Super-Heroes #13 (1968)
Created by Gerry Conway and John Buscema; Carol Danvers created by Roy Thomas and Gene Colan
Key appearances: Ms. Marvel #1-23, Avengers #171-177, 181-193

I was in on the adventures of Ms. Marvel from the get-go, which is unusual as I'll comment further down the line. I couldn't tell you what the attraction was to this character (well, aside from the window in her costume), as I'd not been a reader of Captain Marvel -- yes, I recognized that the costume was the same, but that wasn't the draw. But Marvel's attempt at creating a champion for women's lib in the ERA era, a woman with an important job who lived in a pretty nice apartment and kicked tail in her spare time should be lauded. Marvel did a nice job of marketing the character to boys like me, putting the Spidey cast on the cover of issue #1 along with the Scorpion (#s 1-2), and then guesting the Vision (#5), MODOK (#s 7-10), Tiger Shark (#s 15-16), the Avengers (#18), and Captain Marvel (#19).  And oh yeah -- she became an Avenger herself, upping her Marvel Universe profile even further. 

5. Valkyrie

1^st appearance: Defenders #4 (1972); prior incarnation in Avengers #83 (1970)
Created by Roy Thomas and John Buscema
Key appearances: Avengers #83, Defenders #4-45, Giant-Size Defenders #1-5, Marvel Two-In-One #7

I first encountered Valkyrie in Marvel Two-In-One #7 -- we ran a post about it's great cover last year. As with all of the women discussed so far, independence is a notable character trait. Add in strength, a bit of bravado, and the fact that she doesn't take anything from anybody and Barbara Norris is a winner. Her tragic story of a husband she cannot love was a great hook early on. And, what was more Bronze Age than the Defenders? Her association with that team alone would place her high on anyone's list.

6. Mantis

1^st appearance: Avengers #112 (1973)
Created by Steve Englehart and first drawn by Don Heck
Key appearances: Avengers #112-135, Giant-Size Avengers #2-4

Love her or hate her? It's been my experience that most Avengers fans hate her, both for her grating speech patterns as well as her pining for the Vision at a time when he and Wanda were having some relational difficulties. But I'll sit right here (well, I'm actually standing as I type this particular entry) and say that I like the character. For my money, the "Celestial Madonna" arc ranks among the top five or six Bronze Age arcs, and I pull those numbers out of the air -- it's near the top of my personal list. And, as many of us will attest, the creators and characters that we consider our personal "entry level" carry a ton of weight with us. Mantis is in that category for me. When I was but a waif I had a smattering of Avengers comics, but the first one I clearly recall buying off the shelf at a local drug store was Avengers #130, "The Reality Problem!". If I wasn't already hooked, I was after that one!

7. Red Sonja

1^st appearance: Conan the Barbarian #23 (Here's our review of Conan #24)(1973)
Created by Robert E. Howard; Marvel version created by Roy Thomas and Barry Windsor-Smith
Key appearances: Conan the Barbarian #23-24, Marvel Feature #1-7, Red Sonja #1-15

So why do you think Red Sonja is on this list? Cheesecake? Try that and she'd run you through! But let's face it -- she does fulfill a certain male fantasy, doesn't she? As a lad, I was fully aware of this character's presence in Marvel Feature and her later eponymous title. But unlike the Ms. Marvel book, I don't think I'd have had the nerve to pull one of her books off the shelf and take it to the counter. Don't ask me why -- seems weird, I know. But aside from the titillation, the stories I've read have been interesting and well done. And yeah -- that she wears a chain-mail bikini is perhaps a draw...

8. Glory Grant

1^st appearance: Amazing Spider-Man #140 (1975)
Created by Gerry Conway and Ross Andru
Key appearances: Marvel Team-Up #30, Peter Parker #1-3, 7-8, Amazing Spider-Man #174-178

"Wait, what?" -I hear you say? Karen said she would look forward to my rationalizing this pick. I was surprised when doing research for the post that Glory Grant first appeared in the ASM book. I was pretty sure that it was in Marvel Team-Up. But why in the world is she on my list in place of the Black Cat or Tigra or Hellcat or Shanna the She-Devil? I guess for me she's here mostly for lost potential. And it's not that she's a bad character - no, not at all. I thought she was somewhat exciting as that next wave of supporting characters in the Spidey books, and I especially thought she'd take on a starring role when the Peter Parker book came along. What an opportunity to create some separation between the various titles by featuring supporting cast members in only certain books. A Spider-verse, yes, but still able to remain distinct across the publications. Anyway, Glory was a fun read whenever she showed up, and I enjoyed her limited appearances. And, this is my list... 

9. She-Hulk

1^st appearance: Savage She-Hulk #1 (1980)
Created by Stan Lee and John Buscema
Key appearances: Fantastic Four #265-285

As I began to read a listing of She-Hulk's appearances I found that not only was she introduced just as I was getting out of regular comics buying in 1980, but she really didn't appear in anything I read regularly until after our Bronze Age end-date of 1985. But she makes my list anyway but with a nod to those later years as an Avenger and as a member of the Fantastic Four (where I personally enjoyed her tenure as Ben's replacement after the Secret Wars or some such thing). I read the first few issues of the later John Byrne series but never warmed to it. I guess I prefer my superheroing played a bit straighter, but I appreciate what Byrne was doing. And the character is perfect for such a take. She's lasted in large part to her charm as well as to her strength. Oh, and she's smart, too! She's another great role model for young female readers.

10. Thundra

1^st appearance: Fantastic Four #129 (1972)
Created by Roy Thomas and Gerry Conway; first drawn by John Buscema and Joe Sinnott
Key appearances: Fantastic Four #129-130, 148-149, 151-153, 178-184, Giant-Size Super-Stars #1, Avengers Annual #8, Marvel Two-In-One #53-58

I love Thundra! What a great character! She's sort of like Wonder Woman but with this haughty attitude -- Thundra and Red Sonja on an adventure together would be a hoot! I really enjoy the banter between Thundra and Ben Grimm -- he's such a character built for comic relief anyway, but when there's a potential suitor involved it's just uncomfortably better. I haven't read Giant-Size Super-Stars #1, but I'll vouch for all of the other issues mentioned above. The authors all wrote the character consistently, which is great. The Fantastic Four in the early Bronze Age was certainly off-beat, with Sue out of the picture for extended stretches and Medusa and Thundra with prominent roles. When I see a mag with Thundra on the cover, I know what I'm getting. And that's usually some serious butt-kicking with a laugh along the way.

Doug: So what do you think? Where did we err? What did we get right? And where o where would the female characters fit if juxtaposed with the male characters' list? Be sure to leave us a comment, and then head over to our partners' blogs, listed for you just below. Thanks for stopping by today!

Longbox Graveyard: Top 10 Super-Dogs
The Unspoken Decade: Top 10 Avengers Moments
In My Not So Humble Opinion: Top 10 Avengers Sketches
Legion Of Super-Bloggers: Top 10 Who’s Who Legion Entries
The SuperHero Satellite: Top 10 Cancelled 80s Comics Titles/Characters
Flodo’s Page: Top 10 Green Lantern Ring-Slings ...That Don’t Appear In Modern Continuity
Fantastiverse: Top 10 Avengers Greatest Super Battles
Mystery V-Log: Top 10 Avengers Covers
Idol Head Of Diablou: Top 10 Most Important Martian Manhunter Villains
Marvel Superheroes Podcast: The Top 10 Avengers (An Age of Ultron Tie-In)
Chasing Amazing: Top 10 Favorite Moments Of The "Chase"
Between The Pages: Top 10 Wackiest DC Comics Covers
Too Dangerous For A Girl!: Ten Best Super-Heroic Hairstyles
Vic Sage Via The Retroist: Top Ten Comic Character Deaths
I’m The Gun: The 10 Best All-Star Squadron Covers!

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AND... Be sure to visit the Bronze Age Babies other entries in Super Blog Team-Up:

Was the Vision Really Carrying a Torch? (February 19 2014)

The Frightful Four - Are Brains Required for this Outfit? (May 21 2014)

When Friends Like These Are Your Enemies (September 24 2014)

Things Are a Little Different Around Here... (January 28 2015)

Bring Lawyers, Guns, and Money: Amazing Spider-Man 162

Amazing Spider-Man #162 (November 1976)
"Let the Punisher Fit the Crime!"
Writer: Len Wein
Pencils: Ross Andru
Inks: Mike Esposito and Dave Hunt

Karen: Welcome to part two of our little tale -and what a way to start this issue! I love this cover! Comic Book Database credits both Ross Andru and John Romita Sr. - I definitely see Romita, particularly in the Spidey and Punisher figures. I like how the Punisher is facing both the reader and Spidey and Nightcrawler, guns ready. 

Doug:  One of the ideas we've discussed around here in the past is the obscuring of a cover's logo by the art.  Here the artists give us, the readers, a nice bit of depth by allowing the cables to extend to our own horizon.  The placement of the logo (still one of the best ever, by the way) "behind" the cable lines works great.

Karen: This entire issue is narrated by the Punisher in his 'war journal' style, but it's not over-bearing. The splash page is essentially the same as the cover -the Punisher facing our two acrobatic heroes, although he's inside the tramway car. But he's holding a gun on them both, convinced that one of them has been committing murders in an effort to set him up. Spidey and Nightcrawler, on the other hand, are convinced that the Punisher is the killer they've been hunting. Spidey in particular is ticked off, as he'd wanted to believe the police were wrong about the Punisher. The gun-wielding vigilante tells the two to stay put and not to try anything, but Spidey is too quick. He swings around the car, while his mutant companion jumps through the door, knocking the Punisher over. Spider-Man kicks the Punisher's rifle out of his hands  but the ex-Marine manages to pin the wall-crawler to the wall of the car with a pair of knives that he miraculously throws through his costume's shoulders, and not Spidey's skin! The Punisher pulls a gun on Spidey as the webhead tries to break free and demands to know why he's been impersonating him, when bullets begin tearing through the car. Nightcrawler clings to the underside of the vehicle and scans the area for the sniper, and realizes he's somewhere on the 59th street bridge, hidden from view. The shooting stops and 'Crawler teleports into the car, startling the Punisher.  He wants to question the mutant, but Kurt 'bamfs' away quickly -- he's trying to avoid revealing anything about himself, after all (the whole point of last issue's encounter with Spidey). He teleports a great distance and has to recover his strength; he can't go after the sniper.

Doug:  I always kind of enjoyed the "War Journal Entry #..." style of narration when the Punisher was on the scene.  That sort of self-absorption seemed to fit his dour personality, and also showed how meticulous he was in waging his one-man revenge war.  When Spidey and Nightcrawler move to save themselves from ol' Frank's potential attack, it gives us an extended view of what might have been had our two heroes continued to duke it out between themselves.  Take away Nightcrawler's teleportation powers, and the webhead and the fuzzy elf basically have the same power sets.  It would be a sight to see, and as you remarked last week, settings like the Ferris wheel really provided some neat visuals.

Doug:  Nightcrawler having to recover after a long teleportation was his own personal Achilles' heel, much like Johnny Storm overusing his flame, Iron Man's ongoing issues with his heart, etc.  It's just another perfect example of Marvel's characters and their feet of clay. 

Karen: Alone in the bullet-riddled tram car, Spidey and the Punisher realize that neither of them is the killer, and decide to work together to find him. They head off to the Punisher's 'war wagon' - in actuality, a souped-up van (this was the 70's, remember). They manage to drive right through a police road block and evade any conflict with the law. They decide to get back together the next night.

Doug:  "this was the 70's, remember" indeed!  Between reading this off the spinner racks, and my daily doses of Speed Racer and reruns of the 1966 Batman TV show, was there anything that cars couldn't do?  What a great time to be a kid with a hungry imagination.

Karen: The following day, we see Spidey in his civilian ID as Peter Parker, on the Empire State campus. Interestingly, this is the only time we see Peter in this issue -it was a bit light on his personal life this time around. peter sees Mary Jane getting a little too close to Flash Thompson on a grass lawn on campus. She's obviously trying to make him jealous -and she's also obviously annoyed with him leaving her alone last issue at Coney Island when they witnessed the murder.Pete's irritated by her displays of affection with Flash but he doesn't have too long to dwell on it, because he soon spies another member of his cast, J. Jonah Jameson, headed into a building on campus. We (but not Peter) discover that Jameson is there to see Dr. Marla Madison, an expert on "electro-biology" (??) and he has an offer to make her, the challenge of a lifetime: help him destroy Spider-Man! Boy, he never got tired of that, did he?

Doug:  You see, this is why I was never a big fan of the Peter/Mary Jane relationship.  I know that many of you will say that MJ's strong point was her independence and spirit.  I know Gwen would get mad at Peter for running off on her, but it always struck me that Mary Jane would seemingly dump Pete immediately.  Chalk most of this up to a wide-eyed 10-year old who didn't yet get the cat-and-mouse aspect of dating relationships, but MJ could seem cruel.  And what of Flash Thompson?  Does everyone recall that weird Mindworm story in ASM #138 where Pete moves in with Flash and they become fast friends after years of Flash tormenting Peter?  Fast friend here?  Nope.  BUT -- this was a necessary part of the Spider-Man mythos, and a peek into the alter ego side of things that I looked forward to (still do when reading these old stories).

Doug:  We've also gotten a hefty does of JJJ in this issue and last as well, haven't we?  Jonah is best when moving beyond the typical "Spider-Man's a Menace" headlining, and this is the beginning of a nice arc for him.  How about later when Dr. Marla Madison and he hook up -- inter-generational love, my friends!  By the way, at some point I'd like to see some sort of diagram, graphic organizer, or whatever that explains Marvel science/scientists and just what disciplines they are fluent in.  Electro-biology...  that's not part of your job, Karen?

Karen: Later that night, Spidey and the Punisher meet up as planned. I really like the way these two relate to each other. They don't quite get one another, but there's a respect there. Punisher has a tip that the gunman is going to show up at a block party organized to support a fire house in a poor neighborhood. Spidey takes to the rooftops in search of the shooter while Punisher checks out the alleys and streets. At one point we see a man in an overcoat speaking on a walkie talkie, watching Spidey and telling someone on the other end that he's there, when suddenly he's yanked into the shadows. But that's the last we see of him. Mysterious, hmm?  Next we see Spidey dropping down into an alley where he sees what appears to be an unconscious man. But surprise! It was a trap. The man pulls a gun on Spidey. Old webhead's spider-sense goes off, but thinking it's telling him about the danger he already knows, he ignores it -- and promptly gets hit over the head from behind. He's tough though -- it takes a few more konks before Spidey is knocked out. 

Doug:  The way Spidey's spider-sense worked in the rooftop/alley scene was sketchy at best.  Even though he was some distance from the guy with the radio, we've seen in the past that Spider-Man can have a feeling of being watched -- seems like that should have been the case here.  Additionally, shouldn't Peter have been alerted to the guy in the alley who was playing possum?

Doug:  One of the things I think of (now -- not back in 1976) when I read comics is how much punishment our heroes and villains take in the course of a story.  No way Spidey wouldn't have had a severe concussion after those three blows to the head.  No way.  And that would have affected him well into the next few storylines.  But the only thing we ever see him, or Daredevil for that matter, affected by is a cold or a wrenched shoulder.  Silly...

 

Karen: The party is still going on in the street when the crowd becomes aware of something terribly wrong. They see the limp form of Spider-Man, in chains, hanging from a lamp post. There are gun men in front of him, holding their weapons on the people. A figure in the shadows pulls out a bullhorn and begins calling for the Punisher. He says he knows he's out there, and he has his partner, Spider-Man. He says that the Punisher may not remember him, but he remembers the vigilante, thanks to being thrown through a plate glass window by him. He steps into the light and we can see him -his face is horrifically scarred. He says he's called Jigsaw now, and he's going to kill the Punisher. I thought Andru and Esposito did a an excellent job on Jigsaw's face -- he could have been a joke, a caricature like a Dick Tracy villain, but he really came across as terribly mutilated.

Doug:  I absolutely love the large image of Spidey hanging from the lamp post in chains.  Ross Andru must have looked at some old Harry Houdini images for inspiration!  You said it with your kudo about Jigsaw's look.  The only complaint I have about that page (well two complaints -- lavender body suits for the henchmen?  C'mon...) is the reveal of Jigsaw in the last page panel.  You know who was a master of "the big reveal"?  Jack Kirby.  I swear that man did a great job knowing where the full and half-page ads would be placed in magazines he worked on.  His reveals always seemed to be after a page turn.  Anyway, we really don't get cheated, as there are several more good shots of Jigsaw on the following page.  It's sort of like a trainwreck -- difficult to avert one's eyes.  And that Andru and Esposito did not keep his face consistently drawn only seems to add to the horror the guy went through.

Karen: Jigsaw says if Punisher doesn't show himself his men will start shooting the crowd. He starts counting to three, but on three a knife knocks his gun out of his hands, and bullets begin to spray at his feet. However, he's not lying when he says he's been training- he springs away, rolls, and comes up with his gun pointed at Spidey's head. Before he has a chance to use it, Nightcrawler comes bursting out of nowhere to knock him over. Yes, it was Kurt Wagner who took out the man on the walkie talkie a few pages earlier. Apparently he'd been tailing the Punisher in hopes that it would lead him to the man who killed his friend (Kurt was reading about it in the paper Wolverine destroyed when they were in the Danger Room). Now, he's just in time to save our wall-crawling hero. 

Doug:  Had anyone else nearly forgotten that Nightcrawler was also guesting in this story?  I had.  This was really beginning to play like a typical Marvel Team-Up, where last month's guest only sticks around as a segueway to the next guest and the evolution of the plot.  I was happy, however, to see Kurt arrive to save the day!

Karen:  With Nightcrawler's appearance, Punisher decides to make his entrance. He comes down from the rooftops, firing rubber bullets (to protect the civilians nearby) and using special gas grenades. "Not exactly my regular style, " he muses. No indeed -- especially in his later years! 

 Doug:  As our readers have seen on our reading list on the sidebar, we'll be checking out Frank Castle's first appearance later this month.  This 2-parter, by the way, is the Punisher's 6th appearance (if I count correctly -- check my math).  Am I correct in thinking that it was Spider-Man who insisted that the Punisher use rubber bullets?  Or was that something Castle was doing all along?

Karen:  The Punisher blasts away at Jigsaw's thugs, making his way towards the main event. Speaking of which, Nightcrawler isn't doing too well against Jigsaw (we'd find out later he's wearing an exo-skeleton). Spidey comes out of his stupor just in time,and snaps his chains, saying "This looks like a job for Spider-Man!" (Cute.) With Spidey, Punisher, and Nightcrawler all together, the tide quickly starts to turn. Jigsaw sees this, and turns tail. He heads for the firetruck, of all things, with one of his thugs driving. The wall-crawler spots him and swings up onto the speeding truck but Jigsaw turns the high-pressure water hose on him and it's all he can do to grab on to a piece of equipment and not go flying off the truck. He manages to turn off the water supply, so Jigsaw tries throwing the hose at him. However, it catches around a tire and the other end wraps around Jigsaw's leg. The whole truck goes careening off the road and into a building, with Spidey flipping out of the way just in the nick of time. Nightcrawler and the Punisher catch up and see that Spidey has Jigsaw tied up in the hose. They tell him Jigsaw's men are "neutralized." Spidey goes to shake hands with NC, only to find a cloud of brimstone, and then turns to Punisher, but he's disappeared too! Old web-head decides he might as well leave himself, and swings off into the night.

Doug:  The half-splash of our three heroes kicking butt is pretty fun.  What did you think of Spidey's somewhat cruel goading of Jigsaw?  On the one hand, the guy was a mass murderer bent on some personal revenge scheme.  On the other hand, he had faced (pun intended) great personal loss/tragedy.  On the other hand (now we're venturing into Doc Ock territory with all these hands)...  Ah, nevermind.  The smash-'em-up of the firetruck at the end was a good way to finish the story. I really expected one of those Wile E. Coyote moments with the firetruck going under a viaduct and Jigsaw being decapitated.  It was sort of nice that he was just trussed up, so that we are fully aware that he'll be back.  I loved the Batmanesque exits by the Punisher and Nightcrawler!

Karen: I really enjoyed this story. It was simple and straightforward, it had great pacing, the action was fun and exciting, and Spidey sounded right to me. I much prefer this version of the Punisher -I suppose the original version - to what he eventually became, which was pretty much a psychopath. Nightcrawler really didn't have a lot to do, but was still fun to see. All in all, a very solid read.

Doug:  As I usually do with you -- I agree on your assessment of this 2-parter.  And I think we needed this one after the Marvel Team-Up story, which was uneven to say the least.  But hey -- over the past month we've read stories with Spider-Man, Iron Man, the Human Torch, the Inhumans, Nightcrawler, and the Punisher -- and by Conway, Wein, Andru, Mooney, Giacoia, and Esposito.  That's not a bad line-up.  And as we said a couple of weeks ago, it just goes to show that sometimes our memories of these 35-40 year old stories can be a little cloudy.  But when viewed through the eyes of a child, they were certainly pretty awesome!