The Inevitable Re-Ranking of MCU Films

Doug: Now that the dust has settled from the release of Captain America: Civil War, the next conversation that - to be honest, probably happened immediately - is "Where does this film lay in your ranking of MCU films?" I know that I've mulled it over with my sons, and you've probably had the conversation, too.

Karen: It is a constant topic with my husband and I. And it gets harder with each new film, since I have pretty much liked them all, except Iron Man 3.

For those with faulty memories (raises hand), here are the 13 films in the Marvel Cinematic Universe that have been released to date, chronologically listed:

1. Iron Man
2. The Incredible Hulk
3. Iron Man 2
4. Thor
5. Captain America: The First Avenger
6. Marvel's The Avengers
7. Iron Man 3
8. Thor: The Dark World
9. Captain America: The Winter Soldier
10. Guardians of the Galaxy
11. Avengers: Age of Ultron
12. Ant-Man
13. Captain America: Civil War

Doug: Let's hear your rankings. I imagine that for many of us our top 5 will be pretty similar, although I'm sure there will be some surprises (heresies, even) along the way.

Doug: For me - and this could change tomorrow - I would rank the films as such:

1. Marvel's The Avengers
2. Captain America: The Winter Soldier
3. Iron Man
4. Avengers: Age of Ultron
5. Captain America: Civil War
6. Guardians of the Galaxy
7. Captain America: The First Avenger
8. Ant-Man
9. Thor
10. Iron Man 2
11. Thor: The Dark World
12. Iron Man 3
13. The Incredible Hulk (I've not ever seen this film all the way through, so maybe "N/A" is best)

Karen: I mentioned to Doug offline that my husband and I had made our own lists of the (then 12) films at Christmas and compared them, but since then I had tossed out that list. My first two answers haven't changed, and neither have my final three. But I think the middle has moved around a lot. The thing is, with the exception of Iron Man 3, I actually like all the films! So deciding where to put them is really difficult, as in many cases, it's a matter of perhaps characters winning out more than quality -that's why Thor ranks higher for me than Ant-Man.

1. Captain America: The Winter Soldier
2. Marvel's The Avengers
3. Avengers: Age of Ultron
4. Captain America: Civil War
5. Iron Man
6. Iron Man 2
7. Thor
8. Captain America: The First Avenger
9. Guardians of the Galaxy
10. Ant-Man
11. Thor: The Dark World
12. The Incredible Hulk
13. Iron Man 3

Doug: For further consideration, and after you've done your MCU rankings, think about non-MCU comic book flicks and where you'd slide those in. With that in mind, here's a revised Top 10 for me (again, this changes with the wind and I hope I'm not forgetting anything):

1. Marvel's The Avengers
2. Captain America: The Winter Soldier
3. Spider-Man 2
4. Superman 2
5. Iron Man
6. Avengers: Age of Ultron
7. Batman (1966)
8. Captain America: Civil War
9. Batman (1989)
10. X-Men: First Class

Karen: I've had some time to think about this, and I'm not sure anything else breaks into that Marvel top ten. I have a sentimental love of Superman and Superman 2 but I'm not sure they slip past Ant-Man or Guardians. Maybe. The X-Men films, particularly X2 and First Class, are strong contenders. Spider-Man 2 is another solid one. But I can't honestly say any of them beat this current crop of Marvel films for me. Part of it may be, they are all so much part of a piece. Sure, stylistically they are all the same -but that is part of the appeal, at least to me. So no second list for me -I'll stand pat on this one.

Superhero Movies -- Data for Discussion, courtesy of the Washington Post

Doug: I read the following article from a link on Twitter last night and I thought I'd bring it over here for discussion over the weekend. All words and graphics are copyright the Washington Post and the authors and creators named within, and no infringement of those rights is intended. Hey, around here we just need a good topic to discuss!

Wonkblog

The biggest superhero movie flops and successes of all time

By Ana Swanson and Shelly Tan August 14 at 7:32 AM

A scene from the film, "Fantastic Four," in U.S. theaters on Aug. 7, 2015. (Twentieth Century Fox via AP)

This summer’s “Fantastic Four” could turn out to be one of the biggest superhero movie flops of all time. 

 

The movie had a disappointing opening weekend, grossing only about $26 million at the box office.

But the real embarrassment was the critical reaction. The movie has a 9 percent rating on review site Rotten Tomatoes, the lowest score earned by the dozens of films that have been based on Marvel comics.

Film studios have released a barrage of superhero movies in the past few decades, ranging from flops like the “Fantastic Four” to successes like 2012’s “The Avengers." And as the charts below show, the competition between the two main superhero franchises, Marvel and DC comics, shows no signs of slowing.

Marvel has Spider-Man, Wolverine and the rest of the X-Men, Captain America and the Avengers, and the Fantastic Four. DC, on the other hand, gave the world Superman, Batman, Catwoman, the Joker, and Wonder Woman. The two franchises have been battling for eyeballs since the 1930s, but have seen their rivalry strengthen with the growing popularity of the big budget Hollywood superhero movie.

As the graphic below shows, movies based on DC Comics characters outpaced those of Marvel before 2000, including "Superman" in 1978, "Batman" in 1989, and "Batman and Robin" in 1997.
But in the last 16 years, the Marvel franchise caught up fast. According to data from Box Office Mojo, 36 superhero films have been released based on Marvel comics since 2000, including "X-Men" in 2000, "Spider-Man" in 2002, and "Iron Man" in 2008.

In terms of how individual movies have performed at the box office, however, Marvel and DC are more neck-and-neck.

The charts below show how the top five grossing movies based on Marvel and DC comics, with box office revenues adjusted for inflation. Marvel's top five grossing movies (in red) only earned about $139 million more than DC's films (in blue) have.

One interesting thing is how much of a mark DC's classic movies made -- "The Dark Knight" (2008) is its top earner, but the original "Batman" (1989) ranks second, and "Superman" (1978) and "Batman Forever" (1995) also make the list.

The next chart shows the five least successful movies from Marvel and DC in terms of box office revenues. Here, earnings from movies based on Marvel comics outstrip those based on DC comics by about $72 million.

The record among critics, shown in the chart below, is a little more mixed. For whatever reason, Marvel films seem to do better on Rotten Tomatoes, while DC films fare well on Metacritic. Here are the Marvel and DC superhero movies with the best and worst reviews of all time:

Part of the reason for Marvel's success may be the strategy. By creating so movies around individual characters, and then tying their story lines together in a big ensemble movie like "The Avengers," the franchise has connected audiences with unfamiliar characters.

Competitors have taken notice. In March, Warner Brothers is due to release a new superhero movie in which DC's favorite sons, Superman and Batman, face off against one another, "putting mankind in greater danger than it's ever known before." Given that kind of rivalry, expect more superhero battles to come.

Ranking the Marvel Movies

Doug: In our discussion of the Ant-Man film a few days ago, the conversation turned to our rankings of the films in the Marvel Cinematic Universe. This weekend, let's go ahead and do that as a formal activity. Feel free to rank your favorites across the MCU, and tell us some favorite scenes or lines from those movies. And, if you're so inclined, why not repeat the drill but while adding in the non-MCU flicks such as the Spider-Man and X-Men films. Should be fun to see everyone's perceptions!

Doug: So in the post last Thursday, I commented as such --

My ranking of MCU films would be similar to William's, although I'm not certain but that I would have Winter Soldier at the top or at least tied with the first Avengers film. So, for controversy's sake:

1. Avengers
2. Winter Soldier
3. Iron Man
4. Avengers: Age of Ultron
5. Captain America
6. Ant-Man (?)

And then darned if Martinex1 didn't remind me of the Guardians of the Galaxy! Duh to me... So, in the spirit of commenting revisionism, here's how I'd probably revise my list (but ask me again in two hours and you might get something different) --

1. Avengers
2. Captain America: Winter Soldier
3. Iron Man
4. Avengers: Age of Ultron
5. Captain America: The First Avenger

6. Guardians of the Galaxy
7. Ant-Man
8. Iron Man 2
9. Thor
10. Thor: The Dark World

Now, if I wrap in my thoughts on the non-MCU films, the two Thor movies are going to get the heave ho. Here's how I'd see it now (again, could turn in a minute):

1. Avengers
2. Captain America: Winter Soldier
3. Iron Man
4. Avengers: Age of Ultron
5. Captain America: The First Avenger

6. Spider-Man 2
7. Guardians of the Galaxy
8. Ant-Man
9. X2: X-Men United
10. Iron Man 2

So where do you stand. Right now, that is...

Who's the Worst... Depiction of a Marvel Character in Film?

Galactus?

The Absorbing Man?

Yondu?

Who's the Best... Depiction of a Marvel Character in Film?

Doug: Best, favorite, "big kudo for a great performance"... -- you decide how you want to deal with this. And in a week, we'll look at this on the flipside. Save your disappointments for that coming "Who's the Worst...?"

Who's the Best... First Film in a Series or Franchise?

Doug: Sheesh -- it's a Who's the Bestapalooza this week! Third one! So, which inaugural installment got it right the first time?

Cheeseburger in Paradise

Karen: Sometimes you just really want a good old fashioned cheeseburger...

Karen: My current favorite is from the Famous Dave's barbecue chain -the Ultimate burger, with smoky cheddar cheese, bacon, and pulled pork piled high on top of a delicious brisket patty. But I also dig the tasty delights of Five Guys -the little bacon cheeseburger is fantastic.

Karen: Dive in gang -give your favorite burger some love today! I'm sure we're all going to be starving well before lunch time!

There's My Boys: The Iron Man 3 Trailer

Karen: This latest trailer has added a lot more fuel to the fire. Let's hear what you have to say.

Marvel Movie Timeline

Karen: Marvel has released a timeline that shows when the major events of the Iron Man, Incredible Hulk, Thor, and Captain America films take place relative to one another. Surprisingly, Iron Man 2, Incredible Hulk, and Thor all take place in the same week! Also amusing is the fact that everything in the timeline is either BIM (Before Iron Man) or AIM (After Iron Man) -the Golden Avenger certainly occupies center stage in this Marvel Universe. You can click on the graphic below, or go over to IGN's article to check it out.