Milton Jones: comedians and Christians are dealing with the same stuff

Good interview with comedian Milton Jones at the very excellent LICC website:

Comedians are well-known for mocking religion; do you think Christianity and comedy can happily coexist?

It’s easy to see the church as a sort of bullied boy in the playground that won’t fight back. But God is big enough to take criticism or take a joke. There’s something pretty insecure about feeling the need to do God’s work or protect him. I did do a video a little while ago about the weirdness of Christianity, but honestly within comedy people don’t actually hate Christianity. They hate two-dimensional reactionary Christianity, but there’s actually quite a softness towards ‘thinking’ Christianity. Comedy is full of people who used to go to church but couldn’t quite go along with the whole package because it was too jingoistic. I know a heck of a lot of people in comedy whose parents were clergy or missionaries. Ultimately a lot of comedy is dealing with the truth, about life and what it’s all about. The same is true of faith.

Comedy Vicar

I've just signed up for a Comedy for Clergy workshop at next months Christian Resources Exhibition. Don't laugh. Actually, let me rephrase that...

Current bedtime reading is Saturday Night Peter, the 2nd part of Peter Kays autobiography, it's fascinating to read about another professional communicator, and the attention to detail which goes into his craft. The dynamics of a sermon are different to that of stand-up comedy, and not many of us preachers just have one talk which we take on a national tour each year (though sometimes it can feel like it). But there's a lot to learn - comedians are one of the few people we'll happily listen to for any length of time, up to and including the length of time it takes to develop a reasoned argument.

Comedy can be serious. There was a time not long ago when the only effective opposition to the New Labour government was Bremner, Bird and Fortune. The dog days of Thatcherism gave rise to a generation of political comedians including Ben Elton and Alexi Sayle. More recently Russell Brand, Mark Thomas, Mark Steel, Marcus Brigstocke, Jeremy Hardy, Adam Hills, etc. etc. all deliver a bit of the same. In the Christian 'world', Adrian Plass and J John, in very different ways, can deliver comedy and serious comment in the same sentence.

I'm surprised the workshop isn't called Stand Up Stand Up for Jesus. With jokes like that, you can see now why I need it...

Milton Jones on faith, comedy and atheism

I stumbled across this Milton Jones interview whilst looking for something else on Youtube, like you do. A couple of interesting snippets about how he sees his faith and comedians who trash Christianity. I like what he says about the church as a gym at the end of the first clip: not a place to stay in and show off to the other members, but to get you ready to go out and do something.

"At the very least, read it" Lee Mack on the Bible

Lee Mack, on Desert Island Discs, musing on having the Bible to read on his Desert Island: 

"I'm glad you get the Bible, because I would read the Bible. I think it's quite odd that people like myself, in their forties, quite happy to dismiss the Bible, but I've never read it. I always think that if an alien came down and you were the only person they met, and they said, 'What's life about? What's earth about? Tell us everything,' and you said, 'Well, there's a book here that purports to tell you everything. Some people believe it to be true; some people [do] not believe it [to be] true.' 'Wow, what's it like?' and you go, 'I don't know, I've never read it.' It would be an odd thing wouldn't it? So, at the very least, read it."

Ht The Blue Fish Project

The prospect of alien encounter as an incentive to read the Bible? It's a new one, but it might be worth a try...

God in unusual places

James Corden talking on Desert Island Discs about a hug and a prayer from his dad, which helped him change direction and avoid going off the rails.

A church in the Rhondda Valley which is taking over the Conservative Club. That's the Big Society for you. The refurbished building will become a base for the Rhondda Foodbank, one of a national network of foodbanks which fed 60,000 people last year in the UK.

Whatever (,) He Said

'its not enough to question authority, you've got to speak with it too'
Ht Michael Hyatt

Rowan "Many CofE clerics are smug, arrogant and conceited"

Here's the full quote

"I used to think that the vicars that I played or the exaggerated sketches that were written about clerics, were unreasonable satires on well-meaing individuals, but actually so many of hte clerics that I've met, particularly the Church of England clerics, are people of such extraordinary smugness and arrogance and conceitedness, who are extraordinarily presumptiuous about the significance of their position in society. I believe that all the mud that Richard Curtis and I threw at them through endless sketches that we've done is more than deserved."

Ouch.

Just to clarify, this is Rowan Atkinson*, in an interview in todays Times magazine, which you have to pay to look at. There's also a reaction piece in the main paper, which must have been one of the easiest things Ruth Gledhill has ever written: couple of bishop quotes, and then every religion correspondents speed-dial favourites, the National Secular Society (never knowingly under-quoted). 

Having had a bit of a pop at my fellow clergy (and myself) a couple of weeks ago, I can't argue with Rowan Atkinson, though I guess a vicar who's humble, loving and gracious probably wouldn't get so easily noticed. I'm re-reading Peter Kay's autobiography at the moment, and he speaks both of his faith in some kind of God, and the many aspects of his Catholic upbringing which nearly put him off completely.

Anyway, our Harvest Festival tomorrow, here's what happened to Rowan (warning: rude words)

PS What's the betting Anglican Mainstream repost this one without checking?

* you didn't seriously think Rowan Williams would say this, did you? Thought it, perhaps.....

The Best Medicine

ht Zoomtard . Love the 'homeopathic lager' at the end.

Laugh Your Way to a Better Marriage

Had this recommended by someone I met at a baptism 'do' recently,



there's a few clips on Youtube, website here. A church in Wellington, Somerset has used the DVD set, and it's gone down well. Anyone else come across this?

As with the 'comedians on God' series here, I think comedy is such a good way to come at issues, especially serious and potentially tricky areas like relationships and marriage enrichment. If you can deal with it and laugh about it at the same time, then that's a massive bonus.

Comedians on God 4: Marcus Brigstocke

Probably my favourite of the 4, I don't remotely buy what he says about religions not being interested in truth, but unfortunately that's how some of our more high profile adherents come across.



"withouth the audience to prop it up, both Heat magazine and religious fundamentalism would go away."

However....

There are a lot of easy targets and caricatures in all this comic material. The science and faith issue comes up again and again, without recognising that for a lot of people, scientists included, there is no conflict between them. I also imagine that Brigstocke would want to raise any children of his own with particular values and ways of life, so how he can deny the same things to believing parents doesn't really add up.

I've posted these videos because, though sometimes they're uncomfortable, the best way to engage with atheists is to, um, listen to what they're saying. Sorry if that sounds like egg-sucking class for grandma, but it's quite surprising how often we miss that step out.

Follow the 'comedians on God' tag for the other 3

Comedians on God 3: Eddie Izzard

Izzard does loads of stuff about Christianity, God, and Bible stories in his live shows. Like Gervais, he cites the Genesis account as one of the reasons for him rejecting faith as illogical. However, this is the only clip I can find without lots of swearing....



3 of 4. Follow the Comedians on God tag for the other clips

Comedians on God 2: Ricky Gervais on becoming an atheist

"I wish there was a God, it'd be great"



As it happens Comment is Free is running a series on agnosticism/atheism this week, new article each day.

2 of 4, follow the 'Comedians on God' tag for the others.

Comedians on God 1: Penn and the Prayer Test

Since our politicians are all down at the hairshirt convenience story, comedians are now the only people left who we'll allow to speak uninterrupted for more than 2 minutes without switching channels. Quite a few of them have thought about faith, with varying results - I remember being struck by Peter Kay's account of his Catholic upbringing in 'The Sound of Laughter'.

Here is Penn, of Penn & Teller, on prayer. At the start he refers to another of his videos on evangelism, where he commends a Christian for trying to share his faith, which you can see here.



Ht Derren Browns blog

If you prefer reading to watching, Ruth Gledhill's latest is worth a read on faith, secularism, and whether God is on the way out, the way in, or whether God is where he's always been and it's us who don't know if we're coming or going.

This weeks Start the Week, on Radio 4, also explores whether 'God is back', on the back of a new book by John Micklethwait, the editor of the Economist, by the same title. He makes an interesting argument that the US Constitution, by separating church from state, created a 'free market' in religion which forced the various Christian streams to 'compete' for souls, which gives more vigour to US religion compared to established churches in other places. Spiritual capitalism... Worth a listen.

"Most jokes about religion aren't about doctrine or dogma, but about marketing"

The last of Stewart Lee's Comedy Vehicle last night, on religion. Apart from the extreme evangelical dog school which trained dogs to attack Rowan Williams, here are a few of the good lines - enhanced tenfold by the deadpan delivery:

"The reason I now believe in God and creation and intelligent design is Professor Richard Dawkins. How can something as complex and intricate and beautiful as Professor Richard Dawkins have evolved by chance? Professor Richard Dawkins was put there to test us, like fossils or facts."

“Most jokes about religion aren’t about doctrine or dogma, but about marketing…Catholicism combines a search for a profound spiritual truth in the universe with a love of inane seaside souvenir shop tat. You don’t often see those two things working as a team.”

“It is very difficult to do a joke about Islam because most people don’t really know enough about it for you to do anything sophisticated, so you end up falling back on the most obvious and perfunctory stereotypes, which is very frustrating.”

I expected much more anti-religious stuff, so it was (mostly, if you discount the adolescent skits) good fun. Interesting to see how many comedians are openly atheist (e.g. Jimmy Carr, Ricky Gervais, Eddie Izzard), and the only people we'll now listen to for long enough to allow them to develop an argument are comedians...

More thoughtful stuff from Lee on religion here.

What would the Rabbi say to the Spin Doctor?

Just had a very good few days at Spring Harvest in Minehead, 2 questions buzzing round my head:

1. Would Jesus have called Derek Draper to be one of his disciples? At SH we've been looking at the story of the call of Matthew the tax collector, among other things. Collaborator, crook, thief, traitor, probably had people beaten up for non-payment, generally an unpleasant guy. Everyone else would have pilloried him, Jesus called him. And he changed.

Who else's name could you put in there?

2. Why did the BBC pull the 'religion' programme in Stewart Lee's Comedy Vehicle on Easter Monday? It's now being shown tomorrow night, and timetabled nicely so that you can catch the first episode of the new Ashes to Ashes. Lee is the man behind 'Jerry Springer, the Opera', but the series has been one of the treats of the early spring, on the whole both very funny and very thoughtful, though some of the skits have started to get a bit Chris Morris. The fact the Beeb didn't want to show the religion episode on the Easter weekend suggests they were a bit wobbly about the content.

On Spring Harvest itself, more in a couple of days, it's interesting to read what Dave Walker thought of it all.

Ben Elton on Faith and Fear

Ben Elton has done an interview with Third Way, which has been extensively reported, links at Dave Walker, and Ruth Gledhill posts some extracts from the interview. Elton's latest book is called 'Blind Faith'. If the comedians join the secularism-faith debate then we might get some sense talked at last.

Rowan Williams debating with Ricky Gervais

Thanks to Ruth
Gledhill for this link. I thought this was great, Gervais has clearly
thought about the subject, and Williams comes across as a great listener, and
through listening gains the right to put his point and get heard.

Ruth also links to this story from the Times, on new research on why people leave church by Richter and Francis. Their book 'Gone but Not Forgotten' is in my increasing pile of books I need to read, and 'Gone for Good?' is the follow up.

Here's a brief excerpt from the Times report:'Dr Francis said: “We discovered a variety of factors at work
in people's decisions to stop coming to church. Our hope is to offer a vision of
the church that will encourage people to come back and enjoy being together
again with other Christians.”
He said the churches should make sure they offer every Sunday the kind of warm welcome given to churchgoers at Christmas.
While this would not mean putting on a sparkling Christmas tree, crib and
mince pies each week, it would mean good cheer and lots of singable hymns. '

One a micro level, this seems to confirm the decision at our church not to have sung liturgy at the Christmas night service - if you don't know the tune, it's not 'singable' - and on a wider level the Richter and Francis research is in tune with the work of Mission Shaped Church and the ABofC's promotion of a 'mixed economy' church, where the church offers a variety of styles of worship and entry points to faith. 'Gone for Good' talks about a 'multiplex' model, which is a decent illustration, but I'd want to make sure that we don't reduce people to mere consumers of worship, there's a lot more to following Jesus than that.