Showing posts sorted by relevance for query epson flatbed. Sort by date Show all posts
Showing posts sorted by relevance for query epson flatbed. Sort by date Show all posts

Thursday, 12 March 2009

Nikon IV ED vs Epson Flatbed

The aim of this article is to compare the LS-IV ED with an Epson flatbed scanner (in this case a 4870). Since the Nikon's are still pulling good money on Ebay the Epson's seem quite the bargain (with new V700's costing about what you'll pay for a Nikon LS-V or LS-5000). The reason for this comparison is that many people make decisions on which scanner to buy without much personal experience and by only reading web pages of tests of the devices. So, in this article I'd like to compare one to the other in a variety of ways which I hope will be more meaningful than simply individual machine test results.

Background

As a long time photographer with a quite an amount of 35mm film in my store I have long been interested in scanning my film. My first film scanner was a Nikon LS-20E scanner which scanned 35mm quite nicely at 2700dpi giving files more or less about 3700 x 2700 pixels (or 10 megapixels for those more comfortable with that).

One of the first things which becomes apparent to the newbie in film scanning is just how bloody annoying dust is on the film. Nikon (and others) eventually solved this issue with the ICE technology, while the early implementations were a bit harsh on the image quality the Nikon LS-IV ED (or LS-40) was the first model to do so well at this that I was more than stunned at the results. One thing I'll say for certain up front here is that the ICE on the Nikon scanners works very very well. So if you have anything like fingerprints, dust or even washing streaks on your negatives the Nikons ICE does such a good job that the Epson isn't even usable in comparison.

Having started on Nikons and then moving to Epsons for my 120 and 4x5 film needs I had harbored the notion that the Nikon was a much better scanner for dedicated 35mm work than the Epson. My early comparisons between my much older LS-20 E and my Epson 4870 surprised me so much that I stopped bothering with the Nikon (which is clunky to use) and used my Epson exclusively.

One day I got some time on a friends LS-IV ED and was so impressed by how much better is penetrated the shadows of a particular slide and how well the dust removal worked that I decided that I should get the latest model (the LS-V) or a used LS-4000.

Now that I own an LS-IV ED I have done some more definitive testing, and the results surprised me.

Methods and results:

I'd like to use a segment of film for this test which has been discussed on my blog before (here for instance). I took this with my EOS 630 and an EF 50mm lens when doing side by side testing with my 20D, which can be found here.

After getting used to the Nikon for a few days, I scanned this negative and was immediately surprised that it didn't look any clearer than that obtained by my Epson flatbed. I opened up that image (and also the RAW file from my 20D too) for comparison. Below is a screen grab of that.


Now, don't get stuck on the colour rendition of the Nikon as I didn't do much work on that to match the Epsons (and if you've ever used two scanners you'll know how hard it is to match one negative on two machines), but look at the details, the leaves and the brick work. Now I know that 2900 dpi is not enough to capture what's on 35mm (see my 2002 pages on that here), yet still I was amazed that the difference would be so much.

Especially given that the Nikon is often praised as being able to scan a true 2900 dpi and that the Epson is lambasted for being much less than it is specified to be.

Now, you'll note that the image from the Epson (bottom right) is much larger than the image from the Nikon, this is because it is scanned at 4800dpi while the Nikon is scanned at 2900.

Given that people will read on many photographic forums that the Epson scanners only scan more mush pixels when pressed above 2000 dpi, I think that this clearly shows that there is not borne out by my examination results.

I thought I'd try another negative, and pulled out an old favorite which is also quite a challenging negative (being shot right into the sun). I was so glad I was using Negative for this shot as I'm sure a digital would have needed HDRI to get this...




This was scanned on my Epson 4870 (at 4800dpi then scaled back to 2400dpi) and I think it did a pretty good job. I scanned it today on the Nikon and even tried fiddling with selecting focus points and adjusting manual focus. Its a nice flat negative (thanks to good storage) so I believe that it scans easily.

It is however a very challenging negative to scan as it has high-light like you wouldn't believe and needs the shadow details to make it a picture. Lets look at some details from it (please click on any of these images to load a larger copy, the ones below are 100% crops from the scans).

A corner of the roof from the Epson:



and the same corner from Nikon IV ED

I think they are pretty equal, perhaps when you look into the patterns in the ends of the tiles there is slightly more detail in the Epson scan and I could get better high-light detail in the sky from the Epson too. To do this with the Nikon I had to scan as positive (muchos fiddling with the SA-21 required to line up the thumbnails for prescan aligment) and set much less agressive clipping points.

Looking again at my scan from my Epson I was surprised, both seemed to show more or less equal detail and handled a very dense negative quite well.

Lets look at shadow details. A segment from the Epson



and segment from the Nikon


Not much to separate them, and if anything I prefer the results from the Epson.

Conclusions

So, after all this time it seems to me that I indeed have had the greener grass (the Epson) all along.

Not only are image quality results from the Epson equal or close to the Nikon, for the Nikon to better them requires significant work, rescans and examination. So operationally its simpler to load 4 strips of 6 negatives into the Epson than it is to feed strips one at a time into the SA-21 film system. Used on Automatic Exposure and thumbnail mode the Epson is a set and walk away machine for 24 images. This may in some ways make it better.

Considering that professional scanning bureaus use flatbed systems (like the Creo iQsmart scanner), not only for their scan quality, but also to simplify operatoins this puts more points to the Epson. While the Epson is not in the league scanners like the Creo in areas such as mechanical precision for 1/10th of the price its damn attractive.

Out of the Box the Epson does not give spectacular results (maybe that's true of the Nikon too?) but with a little tweaking of what you do and how you do it you can get significant returns. So the improvements that can be had with some attention to details in scanning those "have to get the best from it" negatives or slides (some tips can be found here in understanding and addressing the limitaitons of the Epson) I think that the Epson stacks up rather well.

Without doubt the LS-IV is not the lastest and greatest Nikon, you'd need to consider the LS-V, LS-4000 or a new LS-5000 / LS 9000 to get that, but then the 4870 compared here is hardly that either.

But this comparison was not to see if the Nikon was better or worse, in my eyes it was to see if the Epson could come within close limits, and that it did!

Hmm ... perhaps the market also thinks so too, and that's why Nikon is rationalizing its scanner market (stripping out the 'consumer' end and leaving only the 5000 and 9000 scanners) and that Epson seems to be continually developing and improving their scanner "for home users".

So, if you've bought (or are considering and Epson) don't think of it as the poor cousin of the Nikon LS-IV or even the V ... recognize that you've got a very good value for money package.

NOTE: when I bought the Nikon, and did some scans I was thinking that the results were not perfect, so I dismantled it (following this fellows instructions) and found that the mirror was indeed filthy. I carefully cleaned and replaced the mirror and this indeed improved the contrast of the scans (although not the resolution). BTW ... if you do follow his instructions, I recommend turning the scanner on the side not upside down when removing that clip. The mirror can then be neatly removed at no risk of falling with a chopstick with a blob of blue-tac on it.

Lastly, I value discussion, so if you disagree with my findings and have got both units and have made comparisons between them (rather than just have opinions based on personal faith in what should be and some net reading) and would like to supply some evidence then please post a link to that, as I would love to belive that the Nikon is better than the Epson ... and pretty soon this Nikon is going up on ebay and I think I'll be looking at trying an LS-4000 (these really do draw the best from problem negatives).

but who knows, I may just stick with the 4870

:-)

Monday, 13 October 2008

scanning colour film with an Epson Flatbed

IMPORTANT NOTE:


there is an assumption in the blog article below that colour management in the options is set to "no color correction" which is essentially off. I now no longer work this way for reasons you can find elsewhere on my blog, but that is not essential to understand here. No matter what, the principle remains the same -> use Assign profile to assign the profile to your image after scanning.

I have realized that I have not explained this functionality well, but I have discovered a preferable way to mange this.

As I made these discoveries after writing this article (and it was also linked to) I did not wish to delete this blog article, but the points below are relevant when doing some other things (which I personally don't recommend like software plugins called colour neg).

Thus it is essential for you to know exactly what you have set in this settings dialog box as this setting before in the Epson TWAIN driver going further.

I have recently discovered some advantages to using the ICM setting (the second option) and have changed my methods back to this.

So in the following article I discuss the assignment with respect to using No Color Correction.

If you use option 2 "ICM" then after you scan into Photoshop you have to assign profile as per what ever the target is in that dialog box (in this case it is Epson ColorMatch RGb). If you were using some of the calibration target systems such asIT8 you would use that, I don't.

I have found that using ICM settings enables some important features:
  1. activation of the Epsons internal calibration systems and allows you to influence how effective scan depth of dark regions of the film by setting sliders in the histogram control.
  2. not activating continuous adaptation to each section you select for scanning. Please see my article on that.

I think that if you wish to be using the option 1 that the correct profile to assign for the Epson flatbed is the Epson TPU profile which comes with your machine (in this case TPU 3200). Note that needs to be assigned, and not converted to when using Photoshop. I recommend that you use option 2 documented above.

Aren't we all so lucky that Epson clearly documents all this.



I've been doing this for ages and I still have as many questions (if not the same ones) as I did back in 1997 when I first scanned a slide with a Nikon LS-1000. Since then I've scanned hundreds of of my images (some several times), read quite a bit, pondered quite a bit and learnd quite a bit. But just to show you that you can still learn something by accident I found out something about how to get better colour scans from my Epson 3200 scanner yesterday.

The problem lies in colour and colour profiles and knowing what is right. A common view is that you should not simply reassign the color space in photoshop (for example with the Assign Profile tool in Photoshop), as this will wreck the appearance. Eg discussions on this site and this site and also this site.

If you don't know much about color profiles (and you're keen to know more rather than just follow my advice here) please read stuff like this. Basically its all about what shade of red we assign to the digital number which we've got that is meant to be a shade of red.

Now, if I have a slide in my scanner when I scan it, it produces data for the computer. If we are using positives (slides, transparencies) then we can either go to the trouble of "calibrating the scanner" (meaning put a slide of known colours and see what numbers we get) or we can ignore the whole thing and just get what we get.

Now if I start with a slide which looks like this:



I can put it in my scanner, and scan it and then end up with what ever I get.


But depending, we might get stuff like this image on the left. Which leaves us wondering just what happened and how to get that looking reasonable on the screen (let alone print the bloody thing).

It looks pretty wild, and while I might like that look its not always what I might want.

In this case I've scanned the image into photoshop and it has chosen to give the image the default profile (which is ProPhoto in this instance).

Now, I haven't gone to the trouble of calibrating my scanner mainly because I mainly scan negatives (and most people will agree that no test targets exist for that area of scanning). However what I did find was that by simply assigning the image to the Epson 3200 TPU profile (installed when I installed the software) it just comes out like the image at the top and not like this garish representation.

To best understand this remember that profiles are not going to have any effect on the scanners data at all. What ever comes from the scanner just comes. So, to get things looking like we think they should (based on our eyes) we need to map those numbers to the right intensity / shade of red green or blue.

Sure the profile generated by software and using a test target will be the most accurate, but for most of us out there I'm willing to bet that the Epson 3200 TPU profile will be 90% right one (or good enough!).

Now here's the thing (and the reason I'm writing this), none of this is mentioned in any documentation I've ever found on the Epson scanner (and I have two of them, a 3200 and a 4870).

So, if you've been tearing your hair out with your Epson flat bed, try looking at the different profiles which exist in your directory. I found these clearly from the Epson installs.

The TPU stands for Transparency Unit. So while I keep my default working profile as ProPhoto, when I scan now, I then assign to the Epson 3200 TPU profile and convert back to ProPhoto.

Perhaps (certainly) this isn't as good as going to the trouble of buying an IT8 calibration target and making my own profile, but heck its good enough for my purposes and (based on my eye) gets me so much closer to the ballpark.

Now this is handy stuff for Positives (transparency) but can it help for Negaitves?

YES ... it can!

With Epson scan I occasionally work by scanning as a positive then inverting manually. There are many who will say its not needed and indeed I don't use it all the time. BUT when I do scan as positive and then invert I've found that by assigning to this color space before inverting I get more consistent results. Don't get me wrong, this is no magic "holy grail" for dealing with Negatives, that remains as difficult as it always has been. This just makes the results a little easier to tame.

My feeling so far is that transparency is simpler to work with as the operator of the scanner, but as the photographer negative will give better results (at the cost of more work) especially with outdoor high contrast scenes.

Feel free to email me if you have any comments or questions.

Thursday, 7 May 2009

bulk scanning with Epson flatbed

I was recently asked by a commenter to my blog to explore this question. I thought it was intuitive but its apparently not. Epson it seems (like many other IT companies) has taken the path of having numbskulls and under educated people take over support jobs (and perhaps even pushing out people there who actually know. I've worked in IT for about 15 years so I've seen it first hand elsewhere).

Anyway, to the point

How do you batch scan film and have the same setting applied to all

I do this by the following methods

Firstly you must put Epson scan into an appropriate mode, Professional. Lets look at the main pannel where I've marked some important places

The next step is done in configuration, so click that.

we need to choose appropriate colour handling from the three options available.

The first option of Colour Control (gosh these poor Japanese keep following Amerikan Speling) will automatically duff your stuff and you'll have to make educated guesses as to which profile you'll assign to your image in photoshop. Note that I said assign ... not convert ... important point.

So I have my target set to ColorMatch RGB in this instance as I find it works well enough for gamut contained in Negatives ... and wider gamuts may just introduce noise.

I am a little superstitious so I often close the dialog box at this point and then bring it up ... you know ... just in case.

Next we need to do a preview of the image do not use thumbnails that's again where the computer will decide for you ... and wherever possible, don't send a robot to to a humans job. Preview the whole plattern and manually select a rectangle on that.


and then adjust each of the colour channels (red green and blue)

Notice that I've left a little space either side of the histogram in the red above and even in the blue here. This is important as often there is some shadow details or high light details which are not shown in the histogram but which you can identify are clipped later.

With respect to the blue, its important also to shove it right over there to the left. I have found that this alters the scan time to make it longer. I believe that this activating some sort of exposure compensation and is giving a longer exposure to the channel. My results discussed elsewhere in this blog support this theory.

Now we have a general setting which will more or less be adequate for all negatives (well all the ones I've got here fit within this range).

So now you can do the next important step and click save settings. Stupidly it seems you can't name it, but that's ok for me as I only have two, one for negatives and the other for slides.

Now, next time you open up (and every time after that) if you select Setting 1 (or 2 ;-) after you've done your preview and it will put a marquee back right were you put it and reset the settings in the histogram to what you've just painstakingly set up.

Great!

Next important section, how do we make more on this platen?

You use the copy selected tool that appears in the preview window (as in the diagram to left).

Click it and another marquee will appear with exactly those settings. So move it to cover the other image you want to scan from the strip.

Repeat this for as many as you want on the preview area.

Now, Ctl + click each image (which you want scanned) and click scan and all those images will be scanned into your application.

Click Scan and job done!

Now as I use Photoshop I have a customised Action set up which does:
  • assign profile (to Epson ColorMatch RGB in my case)
  • invert
which I then play on the items. I'm now 90% of the way done on this batch scan. I often try Auto Color first and if that looks good I just leave it, but if that fails I fiddle with levels for R G and B then curves manually (and perhaps tweak the HUE).

Destination settings (like 48 bit or 1200dpi) are changed globally so will be applied to all not each. I guess this makes sence, but I can understand some may wish to have one scanned at 1200 and another at 4200dpi (I don't work this way).

works for me ... let me know if it works for you!
You may also find the following useful links:

Wednesday, 26 March 2008

Using Epson flatbed scanners for densitometery

In his book "Beyond the Zone system" Phil Davis outlines how to adapt a pentax spot meter to be used as a make shift densitometer (for checking negative density in understanding development and traditional enlarger printing). Well, if that can be done (and calibrated) why not use a scanner with a known (and constant) light soruce which already seems to be calibrated. I this article I explore using my Epson in just that way.

Two of the scanners I use for film scanning are Epson scanners (a 3200 and a 4870). These are not exactly cutting edge material, but then when scanning 4x5 inch sheet film maybe they don't really need to be. In terms of resolution, they do not cut the mustard (so to speak) when scanning 35mm with the intention of printing bigger than 5x7 inch prints, where a Nikon LS-40ED or LS-V ED is better, but its easy to get 1200 dpi out of them and some bureaus only provide 2400dpi for A0 sized prints anyway.

Anyway, back to the Epson. I've been interested to know just how well it really performs, so I bought a Stouffer stepwedge and scanned it to see how the scanner would perform. This is the result of a 'linear' scan with no curves applied.


Stouffer publish the data on this step wedge as:
number of steps density change density change in stops Dmax
21 0.15 1/2 3.05


The Epson scanners have a 'calibration' area at the top of the plastic film holder. This is used internally in the scanner to (I assume) to reference check the light source. I reasoned that if I covered that with something that blocked some of that light then I might be able to get better black out of it.

So, I got a bit of green OHP transparency sheet and used that to cover the scanner in a series of scans. I scanned the step wedge in the following manner:
  1. 16bit RGB scan
  2. 16bit greyscale
  3. 16bit greyscale (one sheet of green OHP transparency)
  4. 16bit greyscale (two sheets of green OHP transparency)
My results are interesting.

tablet step RGB no cover (Green channel) greyscale plain greyscale 1 sheet greyscale 2 cover
1 230 233 254 253
2 192 192 226 237
3 153 155 183 210
4 126 127 150 175
5 101 104 123 142
6 85 85 102 120
7 69 71 83 96
8 56 57 67 79
9 45 47 56 65
10 38 40 46 54
11 32 33 38 45
12 26 28 33 38
13 24 24 28 32
14 19 20 24 28
15 16 17 20 24
16 15 15 18 21
17 13 13 16 19
18 11 12 15 18
19 10 11 14 16
20 10 11 13 15
21 9 10 12 15


Here is the graphic view:

You can see that a log(10) plot (scale on the LHS is more or less linear until about step 17). The straight sample data is plotted on the RHS of the graph.

My interpretation of this is that:

1) the scanner runs out of grunt at about step 16 or 17 and only pulls the last dregs out of shadows. I don't mind this for my negatives (which are seldom so dense), but I think it makes it clear that this is not the beastie for scanning slides (especially slightly dense ones).

2) covering the calibration area yields better white point selection, with the best results (not published here) coming from using a piece of unexposed but developed film as the cover (say a section of film leader, or sacrifice a sheet of film). This has the advantage of maximizing the separation of the data and bringing up the dark end of the scale by a stop or so.

I will be keen to test my 4870 next

Sunday, 11 October 2009

quick negative scan tutorial

Hi since I've discussed this a few times on different forums I thought I should put together something on what the steps are on using a scanner to make optimal scans of negatives.

In this case I'm going to use an LS-4000 scanner, but I use exactly this technique with Epson flatbed scanners too.

To make this 'tutorial' as generic as possible I'll skip the detailed bits on the scanner operation, but I've covered those aspects in other posts on this blog here and here.

No matter what the driver, leave the system believing that it is scanning a positive, not a negative. Then, carefully tweak the red green and blue channels by bringing the sliders (particularly on the light end) closer to the main humps of the datain the histogram ... but don't set the level too close to the data ... you'll clip details if you're not careful. If in doubt test and inspect for high light clipping.

?

Ok ... now you've scanned it into your editor ... I use photoshop, so I'm sorry you'll have to 'translate' this to what ever makes the right stuff for your editor.

start - its now in your editor

my scanner is set to produce its data in a colour profile of Bruce RGB, so your next step is to assign that profile (unless your scanner is set in its configuration to produce data of another profile check your scanner configuration). Now if your editor does not handle colour management then I guess you'll have to find a way to have your scanner put data out in sRGB ... but I'd really advise you to get a better editor.




You'll see an immediate change on the way stuff looks straight away ...



so now we do the next step, which is invert


starting to look right now isn't it ... so much for all that "orange mask" stuff ...

So now we need to sort out the levels more carefully. I deliberately left 'breathing room' before so that we can see more carefully where our levels are in a system which is more amenable to it.


notice how I've moved the levels closer to the humps of the histogram. If you can, hold down the Ctl key which will let you know where clipping is occurring visually. When you get to clipping, back off a little ... because we'll get it closer in the next step with curves.


here I apply a little curve adjustment ... I normally need to pull up the light and pull down the dark areas ... this helps a little to reduce noise, as this represents the indistinct areas near the film base and the areas where the film is approaching saturation (totally black).





So now we have the image within ball park. From here you can "go wild and do your worst"



I've also done a little local area contrast fix here too


Anyway, assuming this was helpful, you might find these quick notes interesting too:


sorry its not compiled into a single resource, that's my next project
Hope that helps

:-)



PS ... to answer the question below (if I've understood it right) I need to cater for the fact that unlike slide the R G and B levels of density recorded in Negative film is not even ... below is a sample of the 'curve' for a typical negative film.



please have a further read on my other page here.




PPS

to answer the question below in more detail I thought I would try this. Consider a point on the graph (not a range) the values for this colour below are 808040 in RGB values This is of course a pure tone and has not "variation" or range.

Now if you were to represent this on negative film the values would not simply be negative, they would also be scaled according to that graph above.

Similarly if I was to take a plain grey tone and photograph it with negative film I will not be able to read values 808080 or even simply inverted values as the response of the film to the light will give different density readings for each of R G and B ... this is unlike positive film (slide film) which does give such (eventually)

Friday, 17 April 2009

Testing LS-4000 with Stouffer Stepwedge

Now that I have a LS-4000 in my home I thought I would apply some of the same testing that I have previously used on my Epson flatbed scanners. I used the FH-3 holder to hold a Stouffer Stepwedge and scanned it in sections to see how the scanner responded to levels of denisty.

I was stunned how it ran out of grunt in ability to penetrate the dark areas. I noticed how sensitive to the 'clear' area of the wedge it was so I popped a little bit of analog gain into the scan (0.8 actually). I did this to hopefully extend the dynamic range into the dark areas and bring the white areas up to begin clipping at "film base".

Cutting straight to the results it is not only not good, its actually surprisingly not good.

This is the result of a scan with 0.8 of analog gain applied to the master gain.

I have plotted a Log10 graph of the results in red (as this is how scanner responce needs to be measured for photographic purposes).

It seems to have made a strange change to the "linearity" of the scanner with a marked step occurring at about step 13.

Its strange that both parts remain more or less straight with a deviation in the middle.

Further, the 'blooming' of the scanner is apparent in the darker areas (note the small intrusion of one of the "frame" supports in the FH-3, this shows that the depth of black is not fully reached even though the ability to discern graduations is substantially impaired).



out of interest this is the result from my Epson 3200, and no blooming is evident in this.



so ... this makes the result from the Nikon particularly scary. Feel free to compare this to the results from my Epson 4990 scanner here.

Note: this effect of blooming is also apparent with x8 oversampling, so it is not just a digital noise issue.

I also thought it was worth mentioning that not only is there substantial bloom (clearly visible here) but that altering the analog gain disturbed the levels of RGB too. Looking at the RHS of this graph you can see three peaks, this is the places where Red Green and Blue have moved up towards 255 but clearly unevenly.

So, without careful profiling using the analog gain on this scanner to 'punch into dark areas' will result in strange colour shifts. I advise use with caution.

I left this section 'zoomed in' to show just how much blooming results in the transition from dark area to light area, it is significant.




Addendum

I was asked some additional quesitons about this so I have repeated the tests and included results for 0 analog gain.

NOTE: rather than wait over the weekend I've disassembled the scanner and sure enough the mirror was rather filthy. So a quick clean with windex and a cotton bud (removing the mirror of course) later and its now performing well


My method was to scan with the scale set as linear from 0 to 255, the scanner software is set to put the data into Bruce RGB, so after scanning this profile was assigned to the data to ensure that the results are correct. As the wedge is so long, I had to scan it in 3 sections. To perform this I needed to
  • insert the wedge strip into the FH-3 holder
  • disable any preview or focus on insert
  • scan each step without prescan or preview
some overlap was possible in scanning (as it is manually fed) so I can confirm that (for instance) the values of step 4 (and the clear part of the step number) were consistent from scan to scan.



The results (data first) include the stand deviation of the values in the selection swatch. Standard error is calculated as the percentage of standard deviation to the median value (not, I use median in this testing not mean).


It seems to indicate that the error is getting quite high as the values go above 13 on the stepwedge. This needs to be taken into account when assessing how effective alteration of the image with curves will effect colour accuracy or noise in shadow details. Now the graphical view




seems that the linearity step at about 13 is still there

Monday, 2 May 2016

digital camera as film scanner

Seldom is there a topic which just can't be put down, even using a 12 gauge and solids with a double tap...


the "discovery" that a digital camera can be a scanner is just such a one. Over the last 20 years I've seen this topic come up and fade away on many forums over many camera generations.

Of course those with any professional experience or training would know this as "Copy Stand" work and is nothing new.

I'd say that the first time I owned a digital camera (sixteen years ago) I had a go at this myself. Nikon (who also made an excellent range of scanners) used to even sell attachments for their digital cameras to make this "easier". It sort of did ...

You know what? The results were always disappointing ... for a number of reasons. I'll only explore some of the basic ones here.

Ok, so that was then this is now ... surely the fantasmagorical ultraJizMatic modern digital cameras make the task a breeze ... right?

Well yes and no.

Executive Summary (for the TLDR set)


  • using the modern D-SLR (or in this case m43) with an appropriate macro lens will allow you to get as much detail (without splitting hairs) from 35mm film as a good modern film scanner from your Color Slides (chromes) and from your black and white negatives.
  • Color Negative is an entirely different story and will require a lot of work to even get close to a decent rendition of colour fidelity.
  • as the format gets larger (just like a FlexTight Scanner with its zooming CCD method) your ability to compete with even a desktop flatbed will go down. I have found that even 645 is pushing shit up hill with a fork and 6x7, 6x9 or god forbid 4x5 inch or bigger sheet will be left gasping compared to a flatbed like an Epson 4870 or later.

To do this you will need :
  • a good quality macro lens (to allow close focusing to fill the frame)
  • a uniform light source 
  • the ability to mung up some negative holders (and you thought the supplied ones with scanners were fiddly .. wait till you DIY your own)
  • a careful and methodical approach
  • a steep learning curve in RAW image processing
or you could save yourself the hassle and just go spend $100 on a good used Epson 4870 (I saw one on ebay in the usa for 49) or later model (such as V700 would be sweet). Spending a bit more on a Nikon film scanner would be even better. Get one of the later LS-50 series with USB 2.0

why is it so?

The problem is that color negative is not like people think it is. Broadly speaking people understand negatives are darker where light has reached and more transparent where light did not reach. This darkness is called density. There are two things about film you should know: 
  1. it has a maximium possible density (like left in the sun then developed) called henceforth Dmax
  2. and it has a minimum possible density (like developed without being exposed) and from now on called Dmin
Negative (if you look at one) clearly has some density even when its not exposed. In general terms this is called the base fog and you'll need to understand it to set your camera exposure to obtain the best exposure (more on that later).

The next thing about negative is that it is coloured ... unlike black and white negative it tries to record Red Green and Blue. Now people on the net bang on about the "orange mask" and try to sound important and knowledgable to newbies (I'll call them Wangers or ZOM) in an attempt to put them off. However essentially you don't need to consider the "orange mask" but you do need to consider this point carefully. I'll indent it and leave it isolated.

the change in density of colour negative is not equal in Red Green and Blue layers.
read that again just to make sure you have got it.

I recommend you take a moment to flick over this blog post of mine from 2009 (yes that's 7 years ago) and in that I show that simply by scanning, inverting and trimming up the captured channels to reflect the above facts of life that the mysterious Orange Mask is no longer apparent ... gone just like the designers intended ... so we can step around those zombies already.

So when you look at the data sheet from a Colour Negative you'll see they provide important stuff such as how each colour channel responds in density to light.

Looking at one such graph to the left you'll see that the density of Blue when its not even exposed to light is almost half way though the range of Red.

You'll see that the density of Red ranges from much more transparent to about half that of Blue or Green. 

You'll also see that Red has a much longer range of density than does Blue or Green.  So this leads to the problem for the digital camera that each of R G and B will have different Dmax and Dmin (quite unlike a scene).

Meaning that your histograms will look quite different in your digital camera. You'll need to set your exposure so that you don't clip either end and to be honest your digital camera is not set up to do this.

Yes, that's right, the makers made the camera to take photographs of the world outside, not as a scanner.

So part of your uphill battle has begun.

What we did

This all started because on a forum for m43 cameras I went out and said that I didn't think that a digital camera would do better than a dedicated film scanner. I opinioned that it may be close on 35mm but on larger formats (120 roll film and 4x5 sheet) that it wouldn't cut the mustard. One person stepped up to the plate and wanted to put his home brew rig (powered by a m43 EM-1 camera) up against my scanners in "the ring". So here we are :-)

To do this study, I scanned two negatives, one 35mm and the other 120 roll film and posted them to him so that he could have a bash on the exact negatives under consideration. He normally uses 120 in 645 format and I normally use it in 6x9 or 6x12 ... which means his 645 image will present a sharper image on the film because the entire system (645) is geared to be sharper because its going to make a smaller image (which will therefore be enlarged more for any given print size).


Looking at samples

First I thought I'd show you the success stories ... so (yes, about time I know ...) here is the best result our collaboration has yeilded, 35mm.
Firstly the overviews
Nikon LS-4000 35mm negative



and then the same negative with the EM-1


The first thing you'll notice is that there is slight colour cast differences ... why? Welcome to the world of colour negative scanning and the principle reason why the advertising crowd favoured "Chromes" or slide film ... ease of consistent colour reproduction (despite slides being inferior in other photographic ways).

That the result is this good is a major milestone to me as I have never before been able to achieve this sort of result

Why?
Well you can thank all the developments in RAW processing because folks this is a tough negative to capture for a camera because of the snow (which will push the Dmax up) and the shadows in under the tress in the background will pull the Dmin right down to the base fog (wedding white dresses in sunlight are equally torturous).

Luckilly my partner gave me a bracketed series of exposures, so to get this I had to pick though them all and find one without too much scrunching down of the Blue and without clipped reds. As it was I used one with clipped reds and used the amazingly good highlight recovery tools in ACR to get the snow and clouds looking as good as they were (and there is still a slight red cast if you ask me).

So lets look into some details of the captures:
  • The Nikon LS-4000 scans at 4000dpi and produced an image of 5458 x 3621 from the negative
  • The EM-1 has a sensor of  4608 x 3456 but for reasons I put down to cropping and alignment to get the image in we ended up with 4140 x 2773.
Lets look at detail:

The Nikon:


and the EM-1



which is immediately obviously that bit smaller due to pixels.

In terms of details I'm going to call them a tie, however I'm going to give the nod to the Nikon for better representing the shadows (which btw if you recall is the Dmin of the negative, so its actually the thinnest part and well within the cameras ability to record because of all the densities the shadows are well captured here). Some colour noise was apparent in the snow because (I assume) the highlight recovery (only involving the red channel) was not perfect.

But both are probably quite acceptable.

Where I'm going to call it an advantage to the scanner is in work involved to get this. With the scanner you insert the film and scan. You can tell the scanner its dealing with a negative so you don't do anything more than just
  • load
  • scan
  • obtain image
This can be done in a batch mode on a flatbed so you can load and go. Or if you want to really squezed the max from your negative, and you've chosen to scan as positive and invert (as in my blog post above):
  • load
  • scan
  • obtain image into editor
  • invert and trim up colour channel levels
With the camera
  • load (I'm sure more fiddly, or if you're just putting them on a light table and moving make sure your film is flat and well masked
  • photograph
  • transfer RAW file to your computer (assuming you know your correct ideal exposure for that negative type which you've previously meticulously recorded and tested and hope that your light source is consistent)
  • open in RAW editor and play with converting to an image (done in a tool like ACR)
  • make sure you move the histograms to best fit the range in
  • invert and trim up the colour channels
I'm willing to bet (having done the last steps here) that the entire process with the digital camera will be much slower - even if the capture time is faster.

Oh ... dust .. we didn't mention dust ... clean up your neg reall well because the Nikon has ICE which does a fantastic job of cleaning up Negatives ... its what it was made for.

Larger formats

So now lets move onto something bigger - 120 film. Now as I mentioned I use 6x9 format and its normally taken with my Bessa camera, which is a 1950's camera. 

A 6x9 camera makes a 6cm high image (occupying the entire film width) and stretching 9cm along the film. The 645 camera is more frugal with film and still makes a 6 cm high image but is only 4.5cm in length of the negative.

The designers of 645 took advantages of improvments in lenses to make more images out of a roll of film. So his camera is going to have better lenses meaning higher res negs.

So what this means is that we need to have higher res scans the film to obtain that higher resolution image. Its an obvious logical conclusion that the digital camera will not perform as well on the larger format as those same pixels are now capturing a bigger image.

I only have the Nikon LS-4000, not the 8000 or 9000 model needed for scanning 120 film, so I'll use my Epson 4870 flatbed. Its as its not a bad scanner but not anywhere near the quality of the Nikon. It does a resonable job of producing a genuine 2400 dpi: which is quite enough for 4x5 and 120 in 6x9 or larger. To get the most out of 645 you'll want / wish for a better result than my Epson.

So will the tradeoff in lower scanner quality equal that of the reduced ability of the Camera to capture?

Lets at what we got:

Epson 4870 

Now, keeping in mind that my partner is only intending to "scan cam" for 645 he did a section of the middle of this:

EM-1



He didn't photograph the full negative from because that would handicap his system for his needs. 

Why will it handicap him? 

Because the sensor of the camera will still only capture the same amount of pixels, photographing a larger price of film spreads the sensor capture to capture the same number of pixels but of a now greater length of film. Less pixels per inch. This is unlike my scanner which will capture more pixels the more INCHES it scans because it scans at constant 2400 Dots Per Inch, if it scans more inches, it gets more Dots (or pixels).

So, looking at the images in overview we have the same shadow colour casts here ... as the 35mm  above.

Ok, lets look at the image size details next:

  • The Epson produces a height (lets not worry about the width) of 5288 pixels
  • the EM-1 produced 3555 pixels presumably this could be tuned up a bit more, but 645 is not the same aspect ratio as 43'rds is so he's going to have to lose somewhere.
Clearly that's more pixels, but is it more details? Lets look now at 100% side by side


Firstly you will be more aware of the colour issues when its put side by side, none the less its immediately clear that the Epson has returned more detail from this film (taken with my 1950's bessa) than has the EM-1.  If you click the image you'll see that there is way more detail on the scan than on the camera RAW. So not only are we not capturing the outright possible details of a 645 system, we're not even approaching the limits of details that my old Bessa gives by using the EM-1.

What's more you'll not only see that there is details in the top of that fresh spruce sapling, but that it shows much better colour fidelity of the young trunk.

This is where I'm going to say this is probably a Bayer array issue, as has been found by others in high detail shots with small features of colour. Tim Parkin found this issue with his post on the missing red berries back in 2010.

Because we are capturing actual RGB pixels with the scanner but a R here, a G there and a B over there for the Bayer (and then assembling a virtual pixel in the middle of that) Array it means that colour fidelity will also suffer.

Adding to this all the above issues of handling and image transfer to me this really sinks the deal: for Color Negative in larger formats a Flatbed scanner will slam dunk the Digital Camera.

sharing my work

As I put an amout of effort into processing these RAW images I thought I'd share a little of that too. I got the impression that I did a better job of converting the RAW files into images than he did. Well lets look at those steps;

Firstly the ACR process ... I picked an image which I thought would have the best data range by inspeting in ACR, I changed the tint to move the channels around a bit:


I then changed the colour space to ProPhoto, knowing that had a wider gamut



notice how the reds are not clipped anymore? Yet all other parameters like exposure were not changed.

That got me this image:



and so then I inverted and tweaked up the R G and B (as per my tutorial above)







which got me this:


and then I rotated it and changed the "gamma" of each of the channels and applied a final curve to it (because digital camera curves are meant to match life not film)


So there you have it.

conclusion

Somehow everyone thinks that they are inventing the wheel. For as long as there have been cameras there have been copy stands. In essence using a digital camera to copy a negative with the negative in a holder is really "copy stand" work. This has always been problematic and companies like Kodak have gone to great lengths to develop films specific to the task of making copies of film or copies of prints.

 Back in the 90's companies like Creo made fantastic flat bed scanners, and this revolutionised the print and press industry. Eventually Seiko (who own Epson) made copies of those scanners and made them cheaper (if a lower quality). Then Nikon came along and made their excellent range of film scanners which evolved from the LS-1000 (which I still own) right through to the LS-5000 (which I never bought, I stopped at the LS-4000) which excelled at scanning ultra high detail on tiny film like 35mm (once thought of as miniature).

There is to my mind nothing better in the market for scanning 35mm colour negative film than the ultimate in the Nikon scanner series, even Drum scanners yeild little more (my post here from 2009). As film format size goes up, the effective "scanning" size of any digital camera goes down, while a flatbed just gets more and more competitive. If I was to scan my 4x5 at 2400dpi then I'd have 11,000 x 8,800 pixels ... to do that I'd need (ignoring the lens demands) a minimum 96 megapixel camera and to deal with the loss of details in colour due to the Bayer Array of digital cameras probably much more like double the dimensions or a square of the megapixel count.

The irony of all this is that for well under the cost of a good macro lens setup (preferably one with a bellows) you can get an Epson 4870 on eBay. Then you can keep your camera as a camera and have a film scanner that does a better job for less.

So while things have really made steps in advancement in processing a colour negative with a digital camera, we're not yet at the point where its better to do that with larger than 35mm. If you wanted to muck around with all this stuff  then yes, you could probably equal a 35mm scanner with your Digital SLR ... but its going to cost you at least as much in specialised lenses to do a good job and be harder work to obtain the results that a scanner does by design.

Acknowledgements

I would like to thank my partner in providing his side of this work. His effort in taking those images of the 35mm and the 120 film and his attention to detail in bracketing and focus accuracy (as well as masking the image to reduce contrast loss from lens flare) has helped make this comparison possible.

Before I began this I had not undertaken this for some years. When last I did this I entirely gave up on the idea because RAW processing did not even come close to making this possible (as the clipping of channels and reduced Blue channel width made the image look horrible). His provision of high quality image captures with his macro system and time and effort has made this possible.

I don't think he's owned scanners before, as many modern film users have come to film in reverse - that is from starting with digital.

I hope that this examination has shed light on the subject for other film users, and that given this you may consider that you can get more (much more) out of your film from this study and some of my blog posts linked to within this post.

Hope you've enjoyed the ride. And remember ... don't be stingy with your bullets and remember to enjoy the little things.