The Case evolution of early Seiko Divers

Now, this is undertaken with "homage" watches, but I've seen quite an amount of comparisons between the "homage" and the original to be satisfied that they are pretty close to the original. Indeed from what I've seen so close that even experts are satisfied and are frustrated that "Seiko didn't do this"

So, the order of release dates of these watches is this

1. 62MAS
2. 6105-8000
3. 6105-8101

What I'm wanting to do here is show what I've observed in the design evolution of the cases of these watches, which I think actually started with the 62MAS and then jumped over to the 6105-8000 case where it then morphed along into the divers case which ended up being refined into the SKX series.

So these watches are (usually if not always) seen by budding enthusiasts from a top down or slightly off angle top down. They are seldom handled, but instead seen like this:

62MAS (Seestern)

6105-8000 (Rdunae)

6105-8110 (Addiesdive)

My view is that this presentation hides what's happened. This is exacerbated by most people only looking at YouTube  and combined with the relative naivety of what amounts to a large fresh watch enthusiast audience (coming into watches post-COVID). 

First off, I want to remind readers that none of these in the Original Seiko had a screw-down crown. The 8xxx cases had a sort of locking crown and the MAS was just relying on its o-rings to seal. This point is not insignificant in watches that will need

1. reasonably frequent time setting (because they aren't quartz and so it was likely to have worse accuracy than 30 seconds per day (that's around 3.5 minutes per week)
2. date needs to be reset about 6 times per year.

This is important (as I've mentioned in other posts) because once you damage the threads in the tube within the body (not the crown which screws into that body) your watch is no longer waterproof and the crown sticks up higher waiting to get whacked probably bending the stem (and then the watch is finally junk).

Depending on if you're a person after a daily driver "tool watch" or a KingWang follower who is the tool for the "tool watch" this may or may not matter to you.

So lets look at what I find interesting; lets line these three up...

It looks to me that the 'machining style' of the case follows an unexpected pathway. Starting from a billet of metal, machining (at first) a slim and stylish (following the fashion cues of the past but morphing them) to make the iconic 8000 case of the 6105-8000 "Slim Case" from basically the same style of case scalloping out (carving out) that the 62MAS already started. Meanwhile "The Willard is basically flat on the bottom. The Willard is just a big fat blob of metal. In contrast the 8000 is a more sophisticated turtle shell shape.

Shaping, sculpting and polishing is beautiful and as you can imagine results in a rather significant weight reduction.

Returning to the MAS and the 8000, I've overlaid the MAS onto the 6105-8000 to show how much steel is cut away from the sides of that billet (making the MAS a more refined looking case) but remains present on the sides of the 8000 case. The 8110 remains a blob with the caseback actually sunk under the level of the case (gunk collection if you ask me).

 Indeed, look at the  tips of the lugs on the cases for a familiar line.

which interestingly didn't carry over to the 8110 case, which is basically a raw blob of metal and so to me, not properly a "Turtle Shell" case, which the 8000 case was.

So lets look from the face side.

This shaving off of metal (or leaving it there instead) results in a watch which is bigger and chunkier and I suspect may have been a way to use existing machining setups while allowing a move of the crown down to the (soon to be iconic) 4O'Clock position.

Now, overlaying the 63MAS outline over the 8000 we can again see that amount of extra metal and the crown position.

The astute will notice that the dial size is actually the same and that the gap in the case for the strap is 19mm on the Rdunae while the Seestern has "modernised" to allow 20mm lugs. Personally I think that was a bit of a wise step (despite what wangers may whinge about on line) because it opens up a vast array of straps (and frankly the Rdunae is shipped with a 20mm strap anyway and its just shoehorned in there).

You can see the (smallish) amount of case shaved "off from the lugs and case" of the 62MAS it is enough to account for the weight differences found here (link) of 66g vs 72g (or the 8000 being about 10% heavier). 

This of course alters the wearability of the watch for daily use compared to the later 6105-8000 (but the Willard at 94g pushes it further). Because I didn't get long with my 8000 (see here), I perhaps need to get another one to test this out, but both of these are very wearable daily divers, more than I can say for my personal experience of the Willard.

Anyway, to me these three watches are "iconic" for different reasons. I believe that the 6105-8000 would have fallen further into obscurity if not for Apocalypse Now and the success of the subsequent 8110 case series. I mean with The Willard its Win Win for Seiko, less machining and if the clients don't care about weight  then perfect (and to be honest, back in those days "Dive Watches weren't common nor were they worn all the time by owners.

Anyway, that's pretty much all I wanted to say here.

Enjoy your day 

Seestern 62MAS thoughts (and review?)

I think highly of this watch not least because of the Seiko heritage that it is paying tribute to, but because it is a very affordable, very well made watch that I can wear as a daily use watch. So this is written with something like 3 weeks of using it as an exclusive daily wear.

So I intend this to be a gloves off "nobody pays  me to write" assessment of this watch.

Bottom line

Seestern have enabled enthusiasts of the 62MAS to have access to a modern version of the watch which is much closer to the original than Seiko's reissues. It does so in a way that modernises critical things (like the movement, 20mm lug width, sapphire crystal) and enables us to have affordable reliable access to a piece of history. Perfect, well except for the high polished bezel and, well the larger size of the bezel being a distraction from the watch's proportions. This is more evident with both watches in hand than even this photograph:

That aside it is indeed a good match for the MAS. Having had both in my hand at the same time I can say that I prefer the bezel and crystal of the Seiko MAS by a mile (and its not subtle).

I like the Seestern a lot but I'm probably going to go back to my Seiko SRPE as my daily wear because of the things I've discovered along the way which I'll discuss here. I may bring it out more in Summer. Unlike my Addiesdives Willard however I'm not going to be selling this watch (I have a small collection with a simple rule of: one in = one out.

Discussion

Briefly the 62MAS marks Seiko's first foray into making a watch aimed at professional and serious amateur divers. I recommend that if you haven't, you look over at my earlier blog post here, which at the very least which serves as both a good introduction to my initial thoughts. There I also give the specs and a link to Fratello Watches post on the Seiko 62MAS which I will again source a portion of an image. 

The dial and the importance of the dial on a diver as being highly legible in all (and adverse) conditions. Key to reading a watch is orienting the dial so that not only is the 12 O'Clock clear but making the quarters of the dial immediately recognisable increases the accuracy of knowing where the hands point to by reducing the time to be clear about is it on the 9 or on the 10

Seiko knew that and made the markers on these positions reasonably visibly different. This is my first beef with the Seestern where they aren't. Actually as an aside my second beef with the Seestern is the visibly bigger bezel dial ring and it being that shitty shiny "make my watch look like a plastic toy" high polish ceramic. Most of the time it doesn't look black... Compare the thickness here where the font struggles to fit into the older one ... The extra thickness makes the bezel dial so much more 'present' on the watch.

But has plenty of room on the newer one ...

Anyway, back to the markers, keep in mind this magnification makes it easier to see the marker differences, compared with on your wrist, perhaps at night and if you're older than 40, perhaps without your glasses (which you only need as yet for reading small print).

This is most pronounced in the night time when the effect of dim light and 'bloom' of the lume conspires to make the 12 (and perhaps the lumed pip on the bezel if you have it kept up at 12).

The second hand lume is barely visible at all (although it is equally bright) because it sits atop the marker. So you can see that, if you're one of these options (over 40 need glasses) this is a small setback for this Homage over the original (and Seiko's reimagining isn't much better anyway). 

While Seestern tries to follow the same ideas of the Seiko

• tapering the lume ever so slightly towards the inner dial
• making them smaller than the quarter markers 

the taper is far too subtle and the ratio of length to width is also far too subtle. Forgive the colour temperature differences, that's down to lighting on my photograph.

Lets look at them all in better (bigger) detail

so at significant magnification the differences are clearer ... handy for the myopic who aren't wearing their glasses ... but not so much in a dive or dim lit situation.

Its important to remember that this is of course a very early Dive Watch, and Seiko was still learning the best design language for Divers watches. To  me this reached peak form in the 7000 series (like the SKX007) where dials and hands evolved to produce what to me is the pinnacle of diver dials. I don't have one of those, but I do have my SRPE which is very close visually to that series. A picture from my above mentioned earlier blog post shows that layout advantage clearly.

Almost instantly you can see the design cues guiding your eye to the hand positions clearly; markers are somehow less cluttered, quarters are distinguished from the others resulting in less time is needed to recognise the time) and so a quick glance is all that's needed. In terms of design language, the later watch has evolved into a clear 12, dashes on the quarters and  dots between them. So at a glance you can see is the hand next to a Dash, between two Dots or between Dash Dot / Dot Dash.

While the hands of the Seestern (which are pretty faithful to the Seiko 62MAS so important here) also make night time recognition harder because the lume on the hour hand is nearly the same width as the lumed markers and the minute hand is barely distinguishable from it (further compounding quick recognition legibility).

So despite being almost exactly the same size of face the MAS, the Seestern ends up looking cluttered and cramped while the more modern dial looks open and clear. 

For me this lack of legibility is a detraction, I wish they'd striven to make the small changes err towards being clearer (instead of less clear).

I like that that bezel on the Seestern is proud of the watch case; both in height and diameter. This makes it easy to grip and turn (as its intended to be); however this has an implication for wearing and long sleeves where it catches a lot.

Wearing the MAS

As I mentioned in the other post watch thickness is almost identical, with only the crystal protruding a bit more to make the watches differ in thickness. So the grip style on the bezel, and the fact that it stands a little proud, means that sleeves and cuffs in particular snag on it. Far less of a problem with the SRPE

or indeed a more modern Seiko diver which has usually got a shape that will allow the watch to deflect the cuffs of shirts up and over it.

(image sourced from Reddit)

Accordingly the bezel gets caught on sleeve which is annoying, so this feels like its going to be more of a summer watch to me. However I'm still wearing it a day later so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Lastly we come to the fact that now most divers (not the Seiko 62MAS, nor the Willard however) now have a screw down crown. Because its a mechanical watch its not going to be as accurate as a Quartz watch is, which means you'll probably be unscrewing that to be setting the time weekly (if we accept that its going to be something like 5 minutes a week out) or if you aren't wearing it daily every time you need to put it on. In the past my (still to this day) favourite daily diver was my Sports 100 from 1979 (which I bought in 1983 or so)

As you can see:

• its very slim
• its very light (less than 63g the Seestern  was 66g)
• the bezel allows finger grip but shirt slip

Being quartz it only required me adjusting the date every now and then because the time was accurate to seconds per month. Frankly adjustment of the date happened infrequently because I often never referred to the date; the day however I looked at frequently but never needs adjustment (unlike the date of the month). So the crown would be unscrewed perhaps 4 times per year. Meaning unlike my Seestern it will never suffer stripped or worn crown case tube threads over time. 

Note also that the Sports 100 has excellent legibility and very clear quarter hour markers; making it an excellent watch from many angles.

Conclusions

Basically the Seestern MAS deserves to be a daily wear watch (the disrespectful will use the term "beater") because:

• its very economically priced (like not far from a Casio Duro)
• it has a robust and reliable NH35 movement in it (so, not unlike that in my SRPE

I'm very pleased to have this watch in my box and I hope that come summer it'll see more time than my SRPE does ... 

I'll update this as I discover more. Update 1

Seestern 62MAS homage

So, in pursuit  of a diver (as a daily driver) and after (expectable) disappointment with the Addiesdives Willard and (unexpected) disappointment with the Rdunae 6105-8000 (failing), my next (perhaps predictable) move was to the try the homage of the Seiko 62 MAS. 

It looks and feels great. The dial is a combination of beauty in the right light, but sufficiently black for high contrast in low light. It is in fact exactly what made me buy the "Dress KX" in the first place. That was a "dress watch which was a homage to the SKX diver series" but instead the Seestern is a homage to the first Professional Diver watch by Seiko which still had elements of beauty making it a single watch for all occasions. Not too big, not too small, water resistant and functional. A "tool watch" which you'd be proud to wear to a function.

For those unfamiliar with the 62MAS I suggest this good over on another site. As is typical (and sad) few dimensions of value are given and very little time is spent looking at the watch in a 3 dimensional way. I hope to rectify that here.

The 62MAS is Seiko's first watch aimed at 'professional divers' and really started their trend of "machined billet" look and feel to their watch cases. Their next move was the (not so well known) 6105-8000 which led soon to the different case of the 8110 or the Willard. The Willard is a classic example of a watch which a movie and the internet has made more famous over time. The 62MAS not so much (unfortunately).

As far as lineage goes the directions started by 62MAS eventually led to the development SKX007 and to the more modern "Dress KX" series (which I've blogged about over here) that is now the base case used on most of the modern Seiko 5's. So as I've sold my SRPE61 but still have my SRPE63 I thought I'd show that beside the 62.

So you can see that the two are very similar watches, with the SRPE showing its "dress style" bezel and diver heritage in the very SKX style case. I think at this point I can say how the evolution of the Diver Dial in "House of Seiko" has shown improvement in legibility. Somehow the SKX (style) dial (on the right) is cleaner, less cluttered and very instantly visible as than the dial on the 62MAS.

Part of this legibility of the SRPE is that the actual dial area feels that big larger, but as you can't see it's in reality not much different. I believe that the presence of the chapter ring outside the dial, but inside the bezel and lack of the "rotating bezel dial" makes the face have more presence. Moving the markers a bit further out also helps this. The use of a clear Triangle at the 12, oblongs on the quaters (well the three has the day/date) and circular pips for the other markers instantly gives recogntion of orientation and thus reading that dial in lower light (like 2am with fading lume).

Watch thickness is almost identical, with only the crystal protruding a bit more to make the watches differ in thickness.

Crown position and curves of the body show the eventual trends that we saw first on the 6105-8000 and then Willard and then SKX007. The utility of drilled lugs is great, especially if you've ever had to hammer out a rusted spring bar (because diving will do that). Further the positioning of the drill holes (hence the actual spring bar position) makes  the 62MAS actually sit better. I mean who gives a fuck about "lug to lug" with relation to fitment when the place the strap pivots around is actually the important point.

The above shot also shows the relatively similar sizes and dimensions. Most of the specs for the 62MAS homage are pretty well known as they are published on the AliExpress sellers, however I may as well repeat the key points here:

Aspect	Dimension
lug to lug	48mm
spring bar to spring bar	43mm
Case diameter	37mm
bezel grip diameter	38.5mm
Case height	12mm
Total thickness	13.5mm

weight of the watches is often (confusingly) given with a strap or a bracelet ... myself I find knowing the watch weight itself to be important, so:

As you can see the Seestern 62MAS is a tad heavier, and annoyingly getting the weight (for comparison) of the actual  Seiko 62MAS is vexed.

To get a better look at the Willard and the 8000 case version please refer to my blog post here. The Seiko recreation of the 62MAS can be found here. 

However this bit from my above blog post about the Willards may be helpful directly.

That also features the SRPE and so its easier to make comparisons between those watches and the 62MAS homage.

Lastly I thought a quick look around in 3D on video would help:

In lower contrast lighting the dial is sufficiently black for good contrast.

Lastly the decoration on the caseback is a very nice touch. Well done and not uncomfortable on the wrist.

So that's about it ... I'll probably look at an Rdunae again when (if?) they come back in stock (perhaps...) and will be selling the Addiesdives Willard on eBay soon.

I'd call this "itch scratched".

:-)

PS today I was in a high end second hand jewellery shop and I was shown a genuine 62MAS with an 8001 case designation. As there was a scale nearby (on the counter) I weighed it and if I recall correctly it was 66g. So I weighed my Seestern and it showed 76g; thus it was lighter than my Seestern. What's worrying is that my scale shows my Seestern to be 66.2g (and all of this is watch only, without strap. Oh and the Bezel turned both ways.

also, I have added this additional set of notes related to it and the 6105-8xxx series of watches

Rdunae - the progenitor of the Willard

I wanted to start this with a picture of the progenitor of the Willard, the subject of this blog post, the homage to the 8000 cased version of the Willard (which was the 8110 case around the 6105 movement). The watch is the Rdunae R2 (their site), which I bought from AliExpress.

The specs are quoted (and confirmed by me) as 

Rdunae Turtle 6105-8000 Homage:

• Case width: 41mm
• Height : 13mm
• Lug to lug : 48mm
• Lug width : 19mm

As far as homages' go this is a very faithful copy and something that those of us who love Seiko belive that Seiko should have fucking done by now (you slack cunts). Its easily the second best "diver" I've owned (this being my personal favourite). 

Sadly you should know right here that I've already returned it because the one I got had a fault (the automatic wind rotor was blocked by the caseback). So it would not wind automatically.

I've had Seiko watches since childhood, they've been solid performers and have been on my wrist for something like 40 years. Interestingly I've only had two Seiko watches until 2020, when I bought the Seiko SNK805 to give myself a new watch. It was my first Seiko to not come on a bracelet and has been part of my journey in learning more about watches. As it happens I'm wearing it while typing this because (with a few changes) its become my most comfortable robust watch. If I have to do work (even just typing) its my go to to wear.

So with that out of the way; I recently bought the Addiesdives "Willard" homage because I was curious and because the desire of it welled up in me after my SRPE63K2 became my daily wear. I mention the SRPE because the case heritage harks back to the Willard (not so much if at all the 8000 case) and because I have loved the movie Apocalypse Now for most of my life.

Its large obtrusive, protrusive and I'm no fan of the high polish ceramic bezel. To me it looks like cheap plastic and not as should be intended; just a more durable replacement for the anodised aluminium.

Most of which I knew when getting the watch from research. I had since come to learn that Watch KingWang (abbreviated to WW for the duration of this post) has succumbed to some medieval 'bigger is better' approach and the KW's of the world value a heavy and uncomfortable lump of metal over refined and yet robust watches.

I personally do not know what led to the direction change; from the refined and stylistic 8000 case to the brutalist nature of the 8110 case. However this Fratello Watch introduction does make that  change clear in history and dates, if not the reasons for it.

Since I mentioned the SRPE series this is the progression of the bases of the watches over time

the progression from the Willard case to the modern SRPE (I'm leaving out the SKX because I don't have one) series is clear. To me the cases became more refined and the Willard is a lump of rock from which the final sculpture finally emerged. Yet interestingly there are traces of that 8000 beginning to be found in the lugs and outline shape of the SRPE.

But returning to the  case development of the diver versions of the 6105 movement and that period of time ..

The stem tube is now buried beneath a large covering of metal. Clearly lug to lug is the same, but the case on the Willard is just a big fat blob of metal. In contrast the 8000 is a more sophisticated turtle shell shape.

Shaping, sculpting and polishing is beautiful and as you can imagine results in a rather significant weight reduction

wow ... it also becomes apparent that the "lugs" are not really lugs, but just bites out of the case to enable a strap to be mounted. 

Also, while looking at this angle, the contrast of the anodized aluminium is much higher, and the polished ceramic comes out looking milky in a photograph (and like a kids plastic toy in real life).

The curve down to the lugs and the essentially thinner case sure helps make the watch lighter and not to be "a lump hanging off your wrist"

Worth noting in the top part of the above image is how much the 8000 case "dishes" compared the Willard. This means that it actually sits nicer over your wrist (which is also curved).

Basically it is curved to distribute its contact with the edge of the case, much better than a disc. Its also worth mentioning that the above "vintage" leather strap is a 18mm (the supplied one was actually a 20mm squeezed into the 19mm lug widths) and happens to fit beautifully into the 19mm and makes it easy to get my spring-bar tool in there. 

At all angles the aluminium bezel is more legible on the Rdunae R2.

A worthy aside was the very high quality large "diver sized" holes and spring bars provided with the Rdunae

So its no surprise then that the 8000 wears much better on the wrist than the Willard. The astute will observe that the Rdunae also has "lock" on the crown, which of course it doesn't because its a plain screw-down crown ... a nice touch. I also happen to like the gold variation (not available on the Willard, but is found on some Seiko Divers.

Generally I love the Rdunae

Getting back to where I started the Rdunae had a problem with the watch mechanism rotor touching the caseback and causing it not to wind. You can see here where this binding occurred.

So basically they need to reduce the thickness of the case back wall (and may have already addressed this) to increase clearance.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Lastly I recommend the interested to have a look at this blog post about the Willard and its production history.

Bottom line:

I like the 8000 case much more than the Willard. The whole thing just fits on me better. So I'm waiting for a new edition to come out (I've been told by Rdunae to expect a production run in August) and until then I'm going to sit.

Also the Addiesdive "Willard" will go to ebay, because its not comfortable to wear as a daily watch (or even for a whole day) and while I love the movie, to me the 8000 case is just a better case for a watch movement (and after all that's what counts, because as you saw in the Fratello watch post they originally housed the same movement).

Militado (brother of Baltany?)

Some time back I bought the Baltany (because it was being hyped up on the Reddit Chinese watch sub) and found that everything that was said about how good the front crystal was, was completely correct. However there is more to a watch than the wanking about the AR on the Sapphire crystal and so I ended up selling it.

However AliExpress had already sussed out that I had a taste for Chronographs (having bought the Pagani, the Phylida and then the Baltany) and amid the suggestions I found the Militado.

Which at first glance could be mistaken for the Baltany (see below) and so pretty much anything I've said about the Baltany (see my review here) goes for the Militado. Note the absence of the date complication (which I'm sure still exists below the face...). As you can guess by the position of the subdials it is a Seiko VK67 movement meaning it gives you a Chronograph that will measure up to 12 hours duration.

Note that the pushers are unscrewed in the Baltany shot, but are locked down (gently) on the Militado further up.

Bottom line first:

I like the watch. I like its dial marking and hands creates a better readability and that its an improvement over the Baltany ... except for the AR.

I like simple dials in, less distraction from the task at hand (identifying and reading the time). So I quickly found that the big printed minutes (with a nod to a flight navigators watch) got in the way of me "recognising" the time at a glance as my brain went "ohhh numbers, lets read that" and I was delayed. Further it then lacked the hours which the hour hand should point to that a Flieger has, this Farer is a perfect example of that

So I ditched the Baltany and waited for the AliExpress 11.11 sales and got the Militado for a good price (AU$125, or about half of the Baltany).

I've been wearing the Militado for about 24 hours now and am finding it is indeed a much more visually practical watch than the Baltany, however one thing stood out as soon as I took it out of the box: the AR coating (which was actually claimed in the AliExpress item details) was either absent or just shit.

This can be seen above, but let me show you in a single picture combining them.

The glass (crystal) just isn't there on the Baltany except in the bright points, and even then you can see behind it. The Militado just has nothing. This is clarified in this test with showing the reflections and at the angle you should see only a faint reflection from the front of the crystal (which isn't AR coated) but not the back, which is AR coated.

So if I was the type to make a big deal out of AR (which I'm not) then I'd say "go for the Baltany".

Getting back to what I like its stuff like

• lighter weight
• smaller bulk in the case yet bigger dial to see
• clear legible dial and 
• clear easy to read polished hands that enable precision of reading the values
• functionality (an actual hour accumulator which goes to 12 hours
• the somehow vintage look to the hour numerals

In practice, when just glancing at it, the Chronograph features don't clamour for attention, but when you are looking at them are easy to read. However its easy to see above the reflection of the ceiling and the contrast black where my (black) phone took the picture. Definitely a reminder that AR (if it even exists) isn't present on this watch.

Lastly (as I observed with the Baltany case) the way that the lugs curve around helps make the watch sit nicely on the wrist. Note this isn't the case with a NATO where (like the Baltany) there really isn't much room between the spring bar and the case. So its either a flimsy crappy NATO or two part straps like this one.

Depending on your wrist I find that the extra angle of the lugs and the fact that they go below the bottom of the watch can result in the (slightly sharp) lugs being a bit "sharp" on the skin when the watch is taken off or you're doing work. Again, refer to the above Baltany post for details

The intelligent choice of dome angle means that you can also see the time properly at a slight angle, something that lately people seem to eschew. So many reviews go on about the distortion and "playing with the light". Personally I suspect that some folks may want a carnival of mirrors, but I have my own opinions about that.

Lastly this blog post took this amount of time to photograph and write:

So just under 3 hours.

I posted this picture of the dial of the (stopped) chronograph so you can see clearly how hands are readable and also why the original Omega Speedmaster had narrow hands (and these on teh Militado are narrower than the Baltany) which are better in the context of actually wanting to use it as a tool (a stopwatch).

On the Baltany (with its wider and blunt sub dial hands) its even harder  to see just where the minute pointer is pointing to and that sort of defeats the purpose of a chrono in my view. Still its only around 10:30 to 1:30 where its an issue (unless the minute hand gets in on the act too).

But who buys a chrono to act like a stop watch anyway, its all about a big bulky watch with lots of markings on it that looks complex right? Something for a big handsome man ... not a tool (the watch, not the man).

So on that note, if you're after a low cost but nice tool, the Militado is good, and if you're wanting a big chunky watch to signal; then perhaps go for a Rolex (maybe copy?).

Happy Watching

Copy that

This isn't the Breitling Top Time Deus Ex Machina (although it looks like one)

indeed, nor is this

although that is my Yamaha SR500 in the background

and this isn't the back of a Breitling Deus

The Breitling however looks like this

The Breitling Top Time Deus above is a rare watch now and while it was originally listed for something like $4,500 it soon sold out and we who like it now have to pay upwards of $18,000 to have one.

To me this is absurd and beyond the actual reasonable cost of the watch.

When makers do this I think immediately of Rolex, exclusivity (meaning excluding me or you) and King Wang. To me this leads to people having watches which they don't actually wear in daily life, leave in a box and just pull out to go to events. These people are quite often insufferable and fuss about "mind the watch" ... This is the exact antithesis of what is portrayed in the Breitling advertising.

Really, that surfer chick is going to wear her leather strap into the ocean ...

However watches shouldn't just be virtue or wealth signalling for the well heeled wanker, some of us are pure enthusiasts. Heck even Swatch recognises this with their Moon Swatch range. Watches are made to wear; and if you're afraid to wear it then, frankly, you're a wanker. Watches are not investment instruments.

So, like they say in the military when they understand what's been said: "Copy that" this is a copy, indeed this copy I previously blogged about has arrived.

I'm the sort of person who doesn't mind a Chinese Homage (because copy is apparently such a dirty word) as I've previously written about here and here. In particular I wrote the following in that piece about my Pagani:

People react strongly about watches which are copies (to be blunt) or homages (to be pretending its something else). Setting aside the fully hand made watch by a craftsman in his workshop, pretty much all modern watches are "reproductions". When seen from the view that; they are designed in CAD, then a machine produces the parts from a file (and in some cases does a lot of the assembly too). From this perspective  a maker (say) Rolex just reproduces watches from a design.

I'm looking at my PD-1701 and seeing that others have (by measurement) done a reproduction of this but at a price which can be purchased by anyone who loves the look and design. The real thing that differentiates it is the logo and copyright.

While the PD-1701 is not finished to the microscopic examination of the case and the mechaquartz movement is not a hand made highly complex mechanical one. Most owners of the Omega would probably not know that you had swapped out their mechanical movement until they went to wind it, for they don't actually see the movement in daily life with the watch. Few if any owners would have taken the case back off in the 1960's to see.

Thus these Homages or reproductions are really just enriching our lives (those of us who aren't uber wealthy or willing to make sacrifices to get the originals) with being able to enjoy the essential parts of the watch - how it looks and how it functions - at a much more affordable price. I suspect this desire to be 'exclusive' (meaning exclude you from my club) is what's really hurt in people when they find out "its a copy"

As you can see above, I tried the Cadisen "homage" (that first link) but had to send the watch back due to a manufacturing defect. The experience led me to try the Sugess but when it arrived it was as lackluster as I'd expected. 

Obviously the Breitling is superior in every way (visual presentation and mechanical execution) neither of the Homages stacked up. Most of all what I like about the Breitling is the generous amount of paint applied to the hands and the almost metallic sheen of the white dial. Contrast and colour. Its beautiful. Indeed if you look again up at the copy watch its similar.

However soon AliExpress discovered my penchant and as I wrote back on the 14th of Sept a copy of the Breitling Deus (not even pretending to be a homage) was presented to me as "we think you'd like this". Not being a Quartz Snob (how could I be, after so many decades with Seiko Quartz watches) how could I resist? So I didn't.

So what did I think of the copy? 

It looks exactly like it should, but in the AliExpress auction they omitted to describe the watch properly. For instance, the sub dials. The one which should be the elapsed minute counter of the chrono is apparently simply a stupid hour counter (which seems not to be linked in any way to the actual hour hand), and the other is functional. 

However amusingly the subdial coloured yellow, which should be the running seconds hand is actually the Chronograph elapsed minutes counter. The pusher buttons function nicely and the reset operation of the chrono is a lovely smooth electronic watch operation.

Well I'll put in this video round up

Some points:

• the supplied strap was vinyl (and crap if thick) 
• lug width is 22mm and I had a nice burgundy red leather one lying around, so I put that on it pretty fast
• the watch is light, which means despite how big it is, its not as fatiguing to wear all day (which I did today)
• the box it comes in is humble, but given the $50 price surprisingly good
• the watch is clearly not machined from steel (didn't claim to be either), but is metal. Probably cast brass and then plated 

I mentioned light, so here it is compared to my Seiko SRPE 

Would I have bought it knowing all this?

You bet your arse I would. The watch face, hands and the splash of colour on the tachymeter is streets better than the Sugess and the Cadisen and the watch is a much closer nod to the original Breitling. Anyone who buys the Sugess or Cadisen and doesn't think they are buying what amounts to a copy is bonkers.

I'm laughing all the way with this watch, not least because its foibles make it funnier than I'd expected. I bet my copy gets more wrist time than most genuine Top Time Deus watches do.

I'm loving it.

BTW, for those misguided or just as yet uneducated:

Deus means God and is not pronounced like the word Deuce (as I hear some Americans saying). Also Machina is said more like the movie Ex Machina (which I recommend if you want to hear Americans who can say Latin words correctly)

Win Win