Traps: Are We Thinking About Them Wrong?

Recent discussion on Alexis's Tao of D&D blog seemed to relate to my recent post defending the labyrinthine dungeon layout used in many RPGs and video games. Alexis was writing about the treasure. Why is the treasure guarded in the dungeon? In his experience, his players, when they acquire vast treasures themselves, don't start constructing a trap/monster filled labyrinth in order to keep their funds safe.

I'll quote my response to Alexis and his response to me in full:

Dennis Laffey said...

I'm not sure if you read my recent post on my blog where I criticize a YouTuber for saying dungeons are stupid or not, but this post seems similar to it. The YouTuber was of the opinion that most dungeons should be the place where the BBEG keeps all his stuff. I disagree. And with regards to your point here, so does history.

Most royal treasuries, from my limited historical knowledge of the subject, were not secreted away in underground vaults guarded by traps and soldiers day and night.

And most secreted underground treasure hoards were not "someone's stuff." At least, not the stuff of anyone still alive. The treasures were grave goods interred with some king or other dignitary. Or were lost or buried in some natural disaster.

For most dungeons, the monsters really shouldn't have been placed specifically as guardians. The treasure was there, and the monsters decided that was a good place to move in after the people who buried the treasure there (or lost it) moved on.

Of course, why all the traps? That's still only logical in tombs, as they would be installed to deter grave robbers. In a lost city that was buried by an earthquake or swallowed by the sea but later belched back out again, all the traps don't really make sense.

June 10, 2019 at 6:46 PM

Alexis Smolensk said...

Yes, why all the traps?

I've had player characters set up lairs for themselves. They do not fill these lairs with traps. Why do the monsters?

June 10, 2019 at 7:51 PM

Why do the monsters build so many traps in the dungeons?

My question is actually, do monsters build the traps?

In the real world, where are traps encountered? Tombs such as the Egyptian pyramids and other pharaonic tombs sometimes had them. The tomb of Chinese emperor Qin (where the terra cotta army is) is suspected to have more treasures in it protected by traps. These days, though, we don't usually bury people with grave goods, so there's not much need for traps.

We do have other sorts of traps, though. Modern security systems include alarms and cameras (which are trap adjacent) and things like auto-locking doors or gates that close upon an alarm being triggered (which I would consider as actual traps). But these sorts of traps aren't everywhere. You see them in banks, high end jewelry stores, wealthy peoples' houses, and other places where there are things of value. Cameras and alarms have become much more common, though. Electrified fencing could also be seen as a form of trap, I suppose, keeping people out of (or in) a certain area.

Also, in war, we use land mines, and sometimes guerilla forces use things like tiger traps (think Viet Cong) or the like. In general, we have decided that people don't deserve to be peppered with poison darts or threatened with decapitating sweeping blades for trying to knock off a jewelry store, so these sorts of traps that threaten death and injury seem to be limited to war zones.

According to the random dungeon placement algorithm in BX/BECMI D&D, one in six rooms not containing a planned encounter should be a trap. That's a lot of traps. I know, because I used that for my megadungeon.

I also have been using it for hexes in my West Marches game. But in a wilderness, a trap doesn't often make sense. Sure, there are a few locations that are basically a big trap. But for the most part, I interpret "trap" as a hazard. So pools of parasite infected water, lava flows, quicksand, rock fall hazards, and the like.

I think a lot of dungeons should be designed this way, too. We don't need to be limited in our imagination to pit traps and darts and the like (although that's fine, especially since these sorts of traps are pulpy fun). But "trap" can also mean just a hazard. The natural disaster that ruined the ancient city caused the walls, roof, or ceiling to be weak in this area, and may collapse. Crystals in the cave wall may reflect your lantern light back in your eyes and blind you. A room's acoustics may be such that monsters in another area will hear you and prepare an ambush.

Thinking outside the box, even a set of natural caves can easily have "traps" and yes, I'd allow a Thief or Dwarf to use their detect/disarm abilities to bypass the hazards, if they roll well.

Not a fan of "gotcha" monsters

A long time ago, I did a "beast of the week" series here on the blog, where I created new monsters for Classic D&D based on a variety of myths, legends, pop culture, and etc. references. Someone somewhere once commented that an OSR blogger had made a generic monster out of Sauron from Lord of the Rings. That was me in this series.

When I completed it, I created a bestiary document for my home games that included all of the monsters in BE plus most of CM from BECMI (left out a few I thought I didn't need) plus all of the BotW series monsters, and a few critters from the 3E SRD that weren't in AD&D (to my knowledge).

Well, with my new conversion of the 5E game to Classic, I'm now revising that document. I took out a few of the joke/gimmick monsters I'd created in BotW (Sauron's still in there though!), and I'm adding in a few more AD&D and 5E monsters that I like.

Going through the original Monster Manual, I notice there are quite a few monsters where I'm just instantly saying NO, I don't want that in my game. And for the most part, they're the "gotcha" or "fuck you" monsters. Rot grubs, ear seekers, lurkers above, trappers. I understand that they were a big part of Gary's games. Players do things like search a wall for secret doors or search a door for traps -- surprise! The wall is actually a monster that will suffocate you.

That's not the style of game I want to play, though. I've had way to many players over the years that spend way too much time paranoid that the dungeon itself is out to get them. And while a little of that can be a good thing, it's not something I want to do often.

Maybe I'll make a room in a dungeon sometime where each wall is a trapper, the ceiling is a lurker above, the treasure chest inside is a mimic (I did decide to keep that one just for fun), and every door is infested with rot grubs and ear seekers and there's a brain mole waiting inside the mimic. Maybe the floor can have a pit trap full of green slime, too! Just get them all out into one horrible encounter. Then be done with them. :D

Thieves (again)

Quite a bit of reading about Thieves and related matters on my blog list this morning, here, here, and here.

Jim at Carjacked Seraphim starts out talking about the fact that secret DM rolls for searching for traps can really screw the player.  While he goes on then to give some new ideas for mechanics to deal with traps, I returned to something I've considered before.

Originally, when the Thief class appeared in the Greyhawk Supplement, they only had a % chance to REMOVE traps.  The % to "find" traps is a later addition.

I'm thinking I'll drop the find traps part.  If you want to find a trap (whatever class you are), you need to search for it descriptively.  Also, as -C and others have pointed out, traps should be telegraphed in at least some fashion to be fair. 

Finding traps should be easy, if you take the time to look for them.  Removing, disarming, or circumventing traps can and often should be done through roleplay.  If no one seems to have a good idea for the roleplay of trap removal or time is pressing, a Thief character can make a roll to see if the PC knows something the player doesn't.

Plus, check out that link to Frank Mentzer's ideas on Thief as a template, rather than a class.  Makes Conan and Fafhrd & the Grey Mouser easier to write up for D&D for sure!

Traps as a Greater Challenge

On the subway today, both to and from a private tutoring session, I was making notes for some traps to put in the Megadungeon.

Of course, I don't need to take notes about pit traps, pendulum blades, lock needles, and the like.  I was brainstorming ideas for more interesting or elaborate traps.

And I started writing quite a few ideas for traps that were intended to create interesting challenges for the players and their PCs, rather than just the typical damage or delay effects of most traps.

And I liked it.

It got me thinking in ways I hadn't before.  What about a trap that will hinder henchmen/hirelings but leave the PCs alone?  Traps that affect logistics, like ruining rations or disintegrating all torches and lanterns.

And some 'traps' that aren't traps per se, but are more fool's bargains that the players might be foolish or desperate enough to attempt, like a magical pool that will give a spell-caster back their daily spell allotment, but permanently lowers one ability score.  Or a magical funnel that if you pour treasure into it, half of the treasure will be teleported to your home (got that XP earned) but the other half will disappear, never to be seen again.

I really like how my ideas were developing.  They're creating interesting choices for players, rather than just knocking off a few more hit points, or forcing a saving throw against some nasty effect.

Of course, there are also a few ideas for easily escapable traps involving an overly elaborate death, Dr. Evil style.  The game wouldn't be as fun without them.

But I'm more jazzed about these traps that are designed to make "story points" rather than just having them be a hindrance or obstacle to be overcome in the standard sense.

______________________________
On a separate note, my class work hasn't been too bad yet, so I've had a bit of free time to work on Flying Swordsmen RPG while I wait on Paul's feedback about my latest version of Presidents of the Apocalypse.  The FSRPG monster section is about half finished now.  PotA will likely be released as a playtest version soon if Paul gives it the thumbs up.

Special Encounters

Yesterday, Telecanter and Talysman had some posts about 'tricks' in a dungeon. Good reading.

I've been thinking up lots of 'special' encounters lately. They're not all tricks, but quite a few are.

Regarding 'specials' Mentzer's Basic Set gives a good set of ideas to go by:

special
A “special” is anything you place which is not normal, but is not a trap, monster, or treasure. Some typical specials are:
Alarm: Summons special monster, opens dungeon doors, or has no effect at all.
Illusion: A dungeon feature (stairs, room, door, monster, treasure, etc.) is not really there, but is merely a phantasm.
Map Change: A shifting wall moves after the party passes, cutting off their exit. They must find another way out of the dungeon. The wall shifts back after a time (1 turn, 1 hour, 1 day).
Movement: The room (or stairs, or door, or item) moves (turns, drops, closes, rises, etc.) unexpectedly. It might be stopped if a roll for surprise (often with - 1, - 2, or - 3 penalty) shows that the party reacts quickly enough to prevent it.
Pool: Magical water has a strange effect if touched (or drunk, or sprinkled on someone or something), such as healing, inflicting damage, changing an Ability Score, changing Alignment, making something magical for a time, invisible for a time, etc.
Sounds: The room (or item, or treasure) makes strange noises: moaning, screaming, talking, etc.
Statue: A large statue of a person, monster, or gadget (nearly anything you can imagine) is found. It may be valuable, magical, too heavy to move, alive, lonesome and willing to talk (maybe a liar), covering a trap door down, a treasure, etc.
Transportation: This could be a trap door leading up or down, secret stairs, elevator, magical portal to elsewhere (another room, another level, another dungeon), etc.
Trick Monster: This applies to any variation of a listed monster, such as: a skeleton who shoots its fingertips like a Magic Missile, a two-headed giant ogre, a “goop” dragon that spits green slime or grey ooze, a wild bore (a shaggy man who tells long,
dreary stories), a quarterling (half-sized halfling), a Mouth Harpy (who can’t sing but plays the harmonica), an Ogre Jelly (looks like an ogre, but . . .) Rock and Roll Baboon, and so forth.
Weird Things: You may let your imagination run, placing such things as: weapons which fly - attacking by themselves, talking skulls, a magic item or treasure firmly stuck to the floor (or wall, or ceiling), a magical area (zero gravity, reversed gravity, growth to double size, shrink to 1” tall; effect lasts until leaving the area), a huge creature recently slain (too big to fit through the corridors - “But how did it get here?”), and so forth.

The other day, thinking of the kinds of specials I'd like to include in the megadungeon. I wrote down my own list of types, which covers a bit of the ground above, but has a few other ideas as well.

Landmarks: large statuary, frescoes, altars, odd colors, etc.
"Key" Items: things that stand out and have some use elsewhere in the dungeon
Oddities: lingering spell effects, magic mouth, pools/fountains, weird zones, etc.
Puzzles: block passage until riddle, logic puzzle, etc. solved
Quest Giver: otherwise friendly creature will only help if PCs help it first
Transport: mundane or magical access to area normally not connected
Maps: maps, clues, hints about the dungeon, windows/scry points

Pit Traps

I was thinking about pit traps in dungeons a while back. Apparently (haven't looked at my pdfs, just read some stuff on Dragonsfoot about the subject), OD&D doesn't go into specifics of the damage done by pit traps--there's some rules for falling damage in there somewhere, but not in the pit trap section. That's where the standard 1d6 per 10' fallen rule comes from.

Well, for pit traps in a megadungeon, or at least one with multiple levels designed to get harder as one progresses, I've had a simple idea.

A pit trap does 1d6 damage for each level of the dungeon you happen to be on. So if you're on the 1st level, that pit trap is only 10' deep and you take 1d6 if you fall in. If you're on the 3rd level, it's 30' deep and you take 3d6. If you're on the 6th level, better hope you've got lots of hit points and your buddies up top have at least two lengths of rope! You've just taken 6d6 and have a 60' climb ahead of you!

I like this, as it means I can simply make a note on the map of where a pit trap is, and don't have to write down how deep it is. The only extra notes I'd need is if there were spikes, it fills with water or some other substance, a monster was at the bottom, or something like that.