Front Seat fabric did not fit

Try as we might, we were unable to make the front seat upholstery fit properly. The problem is that we had allowed too much fabric on the top of the corners. This was because the fabric (upholstery) was designed around the old seat vinyl before I had applied the new foam to the seat.
So with much sighing, Laurel sat down and unpicked the top of the seated part from the front section.



Picture is the front section missing.


























No wonder we couldn't make it fit. This is how much fabric was removed.

We pinned it back to the foam, Laurel tacked it - checked it again, then re-sewed it.
Now it's a perfect fit.

I can now get on with copying the pattern (reversing left-to-right) for the other front seat, then installing this seat's fabric.

Humber Vogue Story

For anyone who might be interested, there is a great historical article featuring the Australian Humber Vogue here.

Rear seat installed

It's temporary as it will have to come out to fit seatbelts and finish the black vinyl trimming, but a real confidence boost for us that it still fits perfectly AND the silver bits line up! We even sat in it for a few minutes - very comfortable as they give a little bit unlike modern seats - kind of like the lounge chair of car seats.

Rear Seat fabric fully fitted

The seating part of the rear seat is now all but finished.
The original seat had a method of securing the vinyl to the front of the seat base that we couldn't replicate easily. They had a 1500mm plastic 'U' shape sewn to the bottom of the vinyl which was then clipped over the 5mm wire frame edge.
Here is how it was originally done.

I originally thought of using clips then covering them with pinchweld but while I was at Clark Rubber a few weeks ago they had a pinchweld profile that had a 6mm clearance at the rounded part. So the clips were not necessary - we simply hold the fabric on with the pinchweld.

Here it is partially fitted with my good old butterfly clips holding it in place until I get to that bit.

Here, I am fitting the last section - just hold the fabric tautly and push down hard - removing clips as I go. It was pretty hard on the thumbs.

The finished product - well almost. I just have to make the two fabric covers for the lower part of the base. They are on a cardboard base and just folded over at the edges and glued around the wire frame

 

These have to be recovered in blue velour.

Rear Seat Upholstery clipped up

Some new excuses for not getting much done this past weekend. On Saturday I slept away the afternoon having come down with a flu-like something. On Friday and Saturday night my son (William) was in a school musical (Little Shop O'Horrors). There was a Saturday matinee but I didn't go to that one.  I wasn't feeling too bad on Sunday so I got something done.
I finally clipped up the back and base of the rear seat.

I didn't use standard auto upholstery clips as were used on the vinyl as they have little "teeth" that would have torn the velour if/when I tried to remove them.

Instead I used these stainless steel clips I found at Officeworks a few months ago. They are sold under the brand "Nalclip". I slightly modified each clip with a pair of needle nose pliers so that the edges are bent up (takes about 6 seconds/clip). That way they don't cut the fabric going on. Top one is modified. (I'll change this photo for a macro one later.)

Unfortunately the applicator was pretty useless as the stuff I am clipping to is only just inside the clips width, but they are easy enough to get on by sliding a screwdriver into the gap.

Window saga and Seat foaming

The windscreen rubber and rear 1/4 light window saga is not over yet.
When we went to fit the stainless steel trim to the windscreen rubber, it was way too wide. The Vogue appears to be different to other Rootes Group cars (Hillman) in that the front and rear windscreen seal trim is a different width from front to back.
Front trim. The new front windcreen rubber allows about 8mm where this measures 11mm.

The rear which is on the car. This trim width would fit the front.

My supplier in Adelaide is going to supply a plastic chrome trim that will fit.
I also sent the rear 1/4 light seals back to him to have them shortened on two sides. When we get them back we will try one last time to fit them and if not successful I'll get "someone" in to do it.

Meanwhile I am still applying rubber foam to the front passenger seat. We are fiddling with it a lot to get a really nice comfortable yet confining seat. It's also a fiddle to get the upholstery to fit.
More soon.

Rear Seat upholstery glued down, Driver's side window in

Actually gluing the upholstrey down under the silver section was another job we really didn't want to do. It turned out fine. I couldn't get good pictures and I think I'll wait until they are in the car to get better ones.

I fitted all the bailey channel, outside weatherstrip and the inside felt strip. The window regulator (winding mechanism) isn't in yet but the window slides nicely.
There's glass in that door!

Front Passenger Seat Foam

I tried to order the foam the right size but they are all a bit on the big side.
Out with the electric carving knife again.

Seat foam re-cut, now for some glue on the base.

This was our poor lounge room today. Sorry family... I use the old foam and vinyl as a reference quite a lot. It will be good to pack it off to under the house (in big plastic bags - just in case we need to do this again) when the seats are finalised.

The foam almost done. I still have to place the 10mm foam over the 20mm to get the "plush" effect. The back of the seat isn't glued to the seat frame - I may not need to.

View from above showing the contour of the back part of the seat.

Front Passenger Seat Back Elastic Fitted

Back in this post I indicated that I was buying some elastic webbing to replace the old rubber diaphragm on the upright part of the passenger front seat.
Well I came home early today and made some progress.

 First I fitted my vice to the workmate, then one by one, cut each piece of elastic and clamped the ends.

The fancy rubber cutters (orange handled things) I bought  a year ago for this kind of thing weren't much use, hence the scissors (to the left of the strap). Thats' one...

Then, seeing as how I have misplaced my pokey tool, I used a 12V circuit tester to poke the hole through the elastic - the clamp already has a hole in the centre - how convenient.

Then insert one of the original wire hook thingys (someone please tell me what to call them) in both ends and...










One done.

All done - then I even had time to blog it. I only finished about 20 minutes ago.

By the way - this is how I determined the length of the elastic.
I measured the distance hole to hole for each of the seven strap positions on the seat.
Then I fiddled around pulling and testing the elastic and figured that I wanted a typical 500mm piece of webbing to be made from about 430mm - that gave me what I though was the right amount of "stretch". Since the wire hook things took off about 40mm all up, the formula became.
Webbing Cut Length = (hole_to_hole - 40) * 0.86
So I cut each webbing strap to that formula.
We will have to wait for the foam to go on before we see if I was right. It's a bit firmer than the old rubber support.

Funny thing - often in these past few posts when I want to type "Elastic" it comes out "Electric".

How to train your Dragon

No progress on the Vogue tonight as we went to this live show. The picture is the staging as we were leaving. (I hate it when people use cameras during a show.)
(Picture edited 14/Mar/2012)

Believe it or not this post is still about EVs. The floor based dragons were very realistic and were mounted on low profile vehicles that provided the motive power and power for the animatronics in the dragon's body. I wondered what kind of batteries they were using. The flying dragons appeared to contain their own power source and it was noticable that the movement of the wings and body was more limited. There was an immense amount of flying work (humans and dragons) and at times you felt that you were watching a flying circus. A great show. It helped to have seen the film as the story was a bit obscure. A narrator would have helped in places.

This is the first blog entry I have mode totally (almost) from my phone - we posted this on the way home on the train (some of these edits later). I shared the picture with Picasa then inserted it directly into the blog entry.

Front Seat Diaphragm Mounted

Last night saw the last two aluminium fillers drilled and in place. I'll have to pad it under the front piece of aluminium as it hits the springs when you sit on it and we don't want rattles. Otherwise it looks like it will work fine.

Closer...

The orange bits you see are orange heatshrink that I have placed over the ends of the four springs that support the front of the seat base. They used to have some kind of fabric over the ends so I figure something is required. The orange was the most durable that I had left over from the electric stuff.

Next - the webbing for the back. I discovered last night that there are actually seven webbing strap holes down either side of the back of the seat. I realised this when I was counting the remaining wire clips (same as you see in the above picture) - there were 14 left. Fortunately I bought plenty of webbing and extra webbing clips.

Front Seat Diaphragm Partly Installed

At about 8PM last night I went out to the garage. At 10:10PM I came back inside.
It doesn't look like two hours worth of work but there was a lot of fiddling around to get an approach right. I took the picture this morning and Xena (the rag stealer has a name) was puzzled by what I was doing.

The Triumph TR6 rubber diaphragm is secured at the front and back. I have yet to drill the holes in the side pieces of aluminium (you can see them at the front of the seat on the floor).

Close up of the front. Note the special holes near the middle to relieve the lateral pressure on the aluminium. Nah - I just stuffed up. For some reason the calculations were out by about 5mm so there wasn't enough stretch so I drilled new holes. It's a bit off centre but it won't matter.

I had to use 32mm wide aluminium on front and back but the sides will be 40mm. I really need about 45 mm because the holes will only be 7mm from the edge. It'll only matter in about 10 years if the steel links elongate the holes in the aluminium to the point where it gives way. The aluminium is as wide as I can make it to help support the 50mm foam that will form most of the seat cushion.

Bailey Channel Search

I have finally resolved the Bailey channel problem. I really have NOT been unable to track down a rigid bailey channel that is 5/8" wide and the right height with a metal trim. See this post. Laurel and I have decided that a non-rigid bailey with no trim will be acceptable.

After much reserching online, I discovered that Clark Rubber (Australian national rubber retailer) actually stocked a few of the candidates for flexible bailey channels.
I went there a couple of days ago and bought back these four samples. The one on the far left actually had little wings on the outer edges which I cut off hoping to get a better fit but it was still too large.

So numbered left to right:
#1 Too large
#2 Fits quite well
#3 Too small
#4 Too low

Number 2 works really well in the doorframe. It will have to be held in with glue at about 100mm intervals. It has the official number 350.222. Clark's price was good so I went back yesterday and picked up 7 meters.

Just a side note. The clips that hold the rigid bailey channel into the door frame were a bit rusty so ages ago, during great clip de-rust, I had cleaned them up and de-rusted them. When I tried to fit one of them into the door frame I scratched the paint on the edge of the doorframe (covered by the bailey channel we have chosen). No matter how I tried there was no way to get them in without damaging paintword. The flexible bailey won't use the the clips so I'm also happy with this approach (glue) on that front as well.

We put the windscreen rubber on the front windscreen last night. We'll give it a few days to settle in then attempt to put the windscreen in the car. If Sunday pans out then maybe then.

Windscreen Seal #3 Arrived - Boot handle on

My third windscreen seal arrived yesterday. We didn't get time to put it on the screen last night - hopefully tonight.

To racap.
#1 Didn't have the stainless steel trim channel
#2 Wrong size - for eariler car
#3 Just arrived looks OK - a tad bigger than #1 so I hope it's OK.






On other matters, the boot handle, trim and boot rubber seal is on. (They have actually been installed for a few weeks but I hadn't taken any pictures.)

Seat Diaphragm Choices

The Vogue seat diaphragm measures 410mm by 465mm. The holes in the seat frame are about 460mm apart front to back, and 510mm apart left to right. The Vogue seat appears to be unusual in that it is wider than it is deep. Same depth as most seats but a lot wider. Hillman (Minx, Gazelle) seats of the same era are identical.
Here's a reminder look at the Vogue seat base.

Here is one of the MGB seat diaphragms that I allready have. It measures 330mm by 430mm.

Here is one sold by a Sunbeam place in the USA for the Sunbeam Alpine. It's almost the same dimensions as the MGB one.

Finally (for now) here is one for the Triumph TR6. It measures about 330mm by 365mm. Coincidently the place that sells them is only about 6km from where I live.

The MGB and Alpine diaphragms are just too narrow.
So the TR6 diaphragm looks like the best contender.
I figure if I cut four pieces of 40mm by 3mm flat aluminium and drill holes for the TR6 links, then drill holes that line up with the 12 Vogue links down the other side (and use the old Vogue links), I would get a nice fit. The 40mm flat would stop the seat foam falling down where the rubber diaphragm doesn't fill the gaps between it and the seat frame.

For the back of the seat (I was going to use the old rubber but have read too many recommendations to always replace the rubber) I was thinking of using webbing straps.

I figure six pieces of 50mm wide seat upholstery elastic webbing. They call this Premium grade. I have sent an email asking how long it would last in the environment of a car. If I don't use this then maybe seatbelt webbing but then I would have to use tension springs instead of the wire link thingys.

Clamp the webbing ends (with the clamps pictured below) then drill a single hole through the clamp for the link.

(Last picture is from http://www.diyupholsterysupplies.com.au/ Thanks Vincent for pointing me at this site.)

UK Bailey channel no good

The Bailey channel from the UK is 14mm - no good.
I have sent the windscreen seal back and expect a replacement in about a week.
That means no windscreen by the end of February. Oh well - lots to do on other bits.
I've tracked down a flexible bailey channel replacement for the Mk1 Ford Cortina that might fit.
Curiously, Clark Rubber stock it so I might get 50mm to try.
More soon.

A Frustrating weekend.

It's been a frustrating weekend.
I decided to leave the rear 1/4 light windows alone for a couple of days while I sought advice and decided to finished the doors - install locks, glass etc.
I had already restored the door lock mechanisms and purchased bailey channel and weatherstrips over a year ago. (Bailey channel is the channel that the winding door windows slide up and down within.)

First step was installing the door locks.

Before

After

The doors close and open very nicely. No door seal yet but that's for another day.

Next, measure up the bailey channel and get ready to cut it. I kept all the old stuff and and the length isn't critical as half the channel is hidden in the door, but I needed to know how much room they took up so I could get the weatherstrip and felt strip that goes accross the door (where the glass dissapear into the door) measured accurately.
Since the bailey channel has been cut with tinsnips I had to clean the ends anyway so I hacksawed off (small fine blade) about 50mm of channel.

First thing is noted is that it did not appear to be wide enough for the part of the door where it was to be installed.
Rear Vogue door showing where the bailey channel fits.

Careful measurement showed my new bailey channel to be 15mm wide. The Vogue requires 5/8" which is 15.875mm. Believe is or not the difference is make or break.

New and old bailey channel.
Picture to be added later - when I find it (found it 2nd March 2012)!

I could kind put up with that, so I checked my 50mm piece on the Vogue doorglass (why didn't I do this a year ago?). Nope, that didn't fit either. The channel is apparently for 1/4" glass - the Vogue uses 3/16" glass. All in all, useless.
Looking up online revealed that I appear to have Holden EH bailey channel. Described as 15mm wide, 15mm high with a stainless steel bead on either side.

The Vogue originally has 5/8" wide, 3/8" high on one side and 1/2" high with a stainless steel bead on that side (outside). It appears to be the only car in the world that has 5/8" bailey with 3/16" glass.





Since I have not been able to find 5/8" bailey with 3/16" glass in Australia I checked the same place in the UK that I got the Vogue doorseal and carpets from - yes they list it. They are emailing me today with the actual sizes.

OK, forget the doors for now. How about the windscreen rubber. We have had a new one for a week or so but hadn't fitted it to the screen. Short version of story. There is no way we could get it on the windscreen glass. The packaging did say 61-64 Vogue/Super Minx but I thought that since we had (me and vendor) discusses the fact that the 1965 has a bigger screen, AND the seal was made for me, it would be corrent. I have emailed him too!

Curiously Alpine West Midlands (provider of Vogue carpet, doorseal, probably bailey channel and now windscreen seal) list one and they have already verified that it takes the stainless steel trim and is for a Mk3 and Mk4 Vogue. I think I'll just buy the third windscreen seal. I'll have a lot for eBay when this is done!

OK, forget the windscreen (Sunday afternoon by now), let's do the front passenger seat. I had stripped it and painted the frame a couple of weeks ago.
I reinforced part of the seat base that had bent slightly and reassembled the base. (A piece of aluminium pop riveted at either end in a pool of epoxy.)

The reinforced part of the seat frame (right).The aluminium is 10mm x 3mm and 250mm long with 1/8" holes in about 20mm from the ends (documented here so I don't forget for the other seat).

Then I got out the MGB seat diaphragms that I bought 2 years ago (having been told they were a pretty close match to Hillman ones), and no way will they fit. I think they would be a disaster even if I did make them fit.


The old seat diaphragm (below). I circled the torn bit - repairable I think.

So three options that I can see:
1. Make the MGB seat diaphragms fit
2. Use webbing and springs
3. Fix the old ones they are torn in one place (center back).

Not a great weekend for the Vogue...