It's been a while since I last wrote. After that Worm attack, we put into Yokosuka for some major repairs and upgrades, and I was too busy scraping barnacles to write. I did find some old photos though, and I thought you'd be interested in hearing about how the Sonic Diver unit got to where they are.
more...
I'm just wondering how it hit THREE cars. One I could understand, but THREE? That truck driver's got some 'splainin' to do...
UPDATE: I just noticed two things, completely unrelated to this story.
1) This is post number 600, and
2) I missed the two-year anniversary of The Pond @ .mu.nu!
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Run in fear! Plead for mercy! BEG FOR YOUR LIVES!!!
No, wait... wrong script.
*shuffle shuffle* Ah, here we go...
*ahem*
Wonderduck Productions has begun work on it's second AMV. The subject anime will again be Kanon 2006, partially because I don't want to get into DVD ripping just yet, but mostly because that's what lept to mind.
Yes, just like "...Angel", this one sprung fully-formed into my brain... with a bonus: the song has never been used, according to AMV.org. In fact, the band in question (The Smithereens, best rock band of the '80s and early 90s) only appears ONCE at all, out of 150000+ videos.
The FIA's World Motor Sports Council, essentially the grievance committee for every racing body the FIA approves, met today to hear the case of Ferrari v McLaren in the StepneyGate scandal.
For those not in the know, a Ferrari engineer, Nigel Stepney is accused of passing technical drawings to McLaren's chief designer Mike Coughlan. The WMSC, after six hours of hearing arguments and viewing evidence, decided to clear the McLaren team of any wrongdoing. However, they did also say that there is no question that Coughlan had the drawings. There's no proof, however, that McLaren benefitted in any way from that.
So, no penalties for McLaren in either of the two championships. The FIA also said that pursue action against both Coughlan and Stepney, over and above the ongoing legal proceedings in Italy and England. They also said that they reserve the right to recall McLaren if any evidence DOES turn up against them... so it's not really over, but it certainly is going to quiet down for a while.
The scary thing is that this is the RIGHT decision. By the letter of the sporting regulations, McLaren is guilty as hell. They DID have the Ferrari tech drawings in their possession, which is against any number of FIA rules, and, again by the letter of the regs, they should have been punished with anything up to and including exclusion from the season.
But that would also be the WRONG decision. It's pretty clear that McLaren, a team which has a spotless reputation for fair play throughout F1 history, is the victim of a rogue Ferrari employee in this situation, and shouldn't've been penalized.
What's scary about this is that the FIA made the right call. They NEVER do that!
Ferrari, of course, is pissed as hell at the WMSC's decision. After the verdict was announced, they said that McLaren was "found guilty by the FIA World Council," and it's "incomprehensible that violating the fundamental principle of sporting honesty does not have, as a logical and inevitable consequence, the application of a sanction". Ferrari then continued by saying that (the World Council's decision) "legitimises dishonest behaviour in Formula 1 and sets a very serious precedent" and is "highly prejudicial to the credibility of the sport". (emphasis mine)
Mind you, this is FERRARI, historically the dirtiest players in the sport, saying this. The saying is that the "F" in FIA stands for "Ferrari", after all. I'm amazed that they didn't get the ruling in their favor. Amazed, but happy.
So, the next phase of this circus is finding out what'll happen to Coughlin and Stepney. Stepney is gone from F1, probably... suspended forever. Coughlin may get the same treatment, though my guess is something much less. We'll see.
In other news, Spyker has announced the replacement for Marcus Winklehock, who was replacing Christijan Albers: Sakon Yamamoto, who drove for SuperAguri last year.
Only Spyker could replace a good driver with a lousy one.
2
I saw that quote from Ferrari about sporting honesty last night. Best laugh I've had in ages.
BTW did get your message about the F1 game, bit busy for it at the moment, don't want to let down the team, but thanks for the invite
Posted by: flotsky at July 26, 2007 08:06 PM (6T2ID)
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*Scratching my head or the StepneyGate ruling and the new Spyker driver*
Winklehock gives them laps in the lead (the only ones they've ever had) and they can him. Go figure.
Posted by: Mallory at July 27, 2007 12:57 AM (KJzva)
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Steven, Spyker is such a low-budget operation that they don't pay their drivers... the drivers pay SPYKER!
So it's obvious that Sakon Yamamoto has a bigger bankroll than all the other wannabes... which surprises me, because one of those wannabes was Narain Karthekain, the Indian driver who has the backing of the largest steel company (I think...) in that country.
I wonder if Yamamoto is still backed by Honda?
Posted by: Wonderduck at July 27, 2007 01:35 AM (7MeZM)
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I'm disgusted by this FIA decision. They didn't find "one rouge employee" guilty, they found THE ENTIRE TEAM guilty of very clearly breaching the sporting regs. If you're not going to enforce them... why have them? I would have been disappointed to see them destroy the current Championship (which has been one of the best in memory) but no fine, no exclusion from the Manufacturers Championship... nothing? I don't ever want to hear that BS about the FIA favoring Ferrari again, because this has to be the biggest gift they could give any team.
Oh and as for Yamamoto/Spyker... if they're that desperate for sponsorship, they'll be up for sale by the end of the season.
Posted by: madmike at July 27, 2007 01:44 AM (BWBM2)
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That's right, the FIA didn't find Stepney guilty... that wasn't the point of this meeting of the WMSC. The point was to decide if McLaren gained any benefit from having Ferrari tech drawings in their hands.
The WMSC, speaking for the FIA, decided the answer was "no," and thus decided that no penalties should be applied. If they had been able to prove that Ferrari-tech had ended up in the McLaren design, then you bet there'd be a banning.
No gift, Mike, because there's NO PROOF. Hell, Ferrari may very well have MCLAREN data now, thanks to the various search warrants that have been executed... so shall we ban them, too?
Coughlin and Stepney will get their lunch handed to them soon enough, but if you REALLY think that McLaren deserved bannination for this, given what we know, you too may be able to drive for Spyker.
Posted by: Wonderduck at July 27, 2007 07:29 AM (AD5Bl)
“The WMSC is satisfied that Vodafone McLaren Mercedes was in possession of confidential Ferrari information and is therefore in breach of article 151c of the International Sporting Code."
151. Breach of rules
Any of the following offences in addition to any offences specifically referred to previously, shall be deemed to be a breach of these rules :
c) Any fraudulent conduct or any act prejudicial to the interests of any competition or to the interests of motor sport generally.
So Vodafone McLaren Mercedes was in breach of the rules, which should hold some kind of consequence. I'm not saying send them home for the rest of the season and I'm not saying exclude Hamilton and Alonzo from the Drivers Championship...
But to say "guilty" and thanks for playing without even a "token" punishment IS a gift.
Oh and my Spyker ride... I got outbid by Karthekain.
Posted by: madmike at July 27, 2007 08:02 AM (o+iiH)
8c) Any fraudulent conduct or any act prejudicial to the interests of any competition or to the interests of motor sport generally.
...and how, if there was no proof that McLaren made use of the technical drawings to give themselves an advantage, AS STATED BY THE WMSC, is this "prejudicial to the interests of any competition", Mike?
That's the kicker, isn't it? They had the plans... and didn't use them to their advantage. No harm, no foul, and Ferrari, in their typical grandstanding manner, forgot that they had to prove the case. They failed, the WMSC knew it, and let McLaren off without a penalty.
The fact of the matter is that we don't even know what the drawings are.
If I may quote from grandprix.com for a second:
Indeed, there is an argument - which McLaren may have used in the court - that Ferrari might also have been judged guilty if it had been called before the World Council because the alleged activities of its former employee Nigel Stepney, as these actions might also have been judged to have brought the sport into disrepute.
Still think it's a gift? The only gift I'm seeing is that Ferrari isn't being called on the carpet themselves... for trying to set up McLaren.
By the way, I apologize for the Spyker snark... you're too good for 'em.
Posted by: Wonderduck at July 27, 2007 10:08 AM (UcNEr)
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I think you got me wrong... the first line of my comment is actual text from the FIA press release dated 7/26. Not my words, but theirs:
“The WMSC is satisfied that Vodafone McLaren Mercedes was in possession of confidential Ferrari information and is therefore in breach of article 151c of the International Sporting Code."
I'm not arguing whether they broke the rules or brought "disrepute" to F1, the WMSC said that they were in breach of article 151c. Basicly that the possession of those confidential documents was the crime itself. The "use" of that intellectual property has no bearing on the decision above, but would have come into play if the FIA deemed punishment necessary.
Coghlin was caught trying to duplicate these documents... no doubt to distribute to other McLaren employees. So if say 12 people on the team get to peruse a competitors clearly marked "confidential" documents but say they didn't really "use" that information, is it still "no harm, no foul"? (not making a pun with the "foul")
:-)
I just don't see how you can get caught red-handed (also no pun) and still be allowed to go on your merry way.
Isn't "in breach of the sporting code" just fancy words for "cheating"?
And I'm totally lost on how you see Ferrari as "setting them (McLaren) up".
Posted by: madmike at July 27, 2007 11:52 AM (o+iiH)
10...the first line of my comment is actual text from the FIA press release...
Yeah, I got that.
...And I'm totally lost on how you see Ferrari as "setting them (McLaren) up".
Actually, I don't believe they are. But imagine this: A Ferrari employee 'loses' his tech drawings outside Coughlin's house. Coughlin picks them up and looks at them to see what they are. At that moment, a Ferrari employee makes a phone call to the police... and 151c is technically violated, even though it wasn't intentional. Caught red handed, too.
I'm not saying that's the way it worked, but it's one way you could set up a team with the strict interpretation of the rules.
Basicly that the possession of those confidential documents was the crime itself.
Ah, but that's not what 151c says... it says Any fraudulent conduct or any act prejudicial to the interests of any competition or to the interests of motor sport generally.
Again, since Ferrari and the WMSC could not PROVE that the documents were used by McLaren to provide an advantage, there wasn't any act prejudicial to competition. The WMSC has left the matter open, so if proof DOES come out, McLaren can still be walloped... but that's just not likely to happen, because it sure looks like it didn't happen.
And yes, those hypothetical 12 engineers probably would use the information... but please note that the copies never did make it to their hands, so that idea is moot.
Actually, to me, it's more likely that the copies were destined to end up in Honda's hands, rather than McLaren... considering the talk that Coughlin, Stepney, and "four other" designers/engineers were going to head there after the season.
Posted by: Wonderduck at July 27, 2007 01:38 PM (UcNEr)
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Mike, if you're going to lean on the WMSC's statement, you really should include the entire statement:
"The WMSC is satisfied Vodafone McLaren Mercedes was in possession of confidential Ferrari information and is therefore in breach of Article 151c of the International Sporting Code."
Now the part you neglected to mention:
"However, there is insufficient evidence that this information was used in such a way as to interfere improperly with the FIA Formula One World Championship. We therefore impose no penalty."
Posted by: Wonderduck at July 27, 2007 02:02 PM (UcNEr)
I'm actually surprised that SeaBass hasn't been announced for the upcoming race. There's only one reason I can see that he won't be driving for TR this year: that there are a couple of race conflicts between his current contract and the F1 schedule.
Posted by: Wonderduck at July 28, 2007 04:00 AM (7MeZM)
So... not much of a race today, huh? The first part of this F1 UPDATE! needs to be read while listening to THIS.
*RAIN... THE GREAT EQUALIZER: When the red lights went out, the track was dry and the sun was shining. By the time the cars made the first turn, the sun was gone. By the halfway point of the first lap, the scene looked like this:
All bets were off, as were most of the cars... seven slid off in quick succession, including four at the same corner, all in a row.
And Marcus Winklehock, making his first F1 start ever, in the worst car on the track (but the only one on wet tires), suddenly had a 30 second lead on the field!
Then you had a massive dive for the pit lane by, oh, just about every car still on track, nearly resulting in a pileup of monumental proportions.
Finally, after a safety car on lap 3, somebody in the FIA realized that while what was occurring on the Nurb Jr track was incredibly entertaining, it was also not auto racing. Auto SWIMMING, perhaps, but not racing, so they ran out the red flag, stopping the race for 15 minutes. Immediately upon deployment of said flag, the rain stopped. Upon the restart, the safety car stayed out for three laps, meaning that Marcus Winklehock, driving for Spyker, led the race for seven laps... becoming the first for the pathetic Dutch team to even run in the top eight at ANY time in their history.
Yup, it was that sort of day.
*DRIVER OF THE RACE: David Coulthard's Chin started 20th after a flat-out miserable qualifying (that he blamed on his teammate, for blocking him on his hotlap). After the aforementioned Benny Hill start and a furious drive through the field, The Chin brought his car home in 5th, making up 15 places. Well done, DC'sC!
*TEAM OF THE RACE: RedBull. The Chin was 5th. Mark Webber was on the podium in 3rd. This was the best performance by the Red Bull team in a race ever... how could they NOT earn TotR?
*MOVE OF THE RACE: Fernando Alonso was in 2nd, about 15 seconds behind with 10 laps to go, and satisfied with his position.
Then the rains came back.
Within three laps (and one pitstop for intermediate tires), he was all over Felipe Massa's Ferrari, doing everything he could think of to pass him for the lead. On Lap 56 he blocked Alonso into Turn 1, slid outside to keep the door closed into Turn 2, and Alonso tried going outside in Turn 3 but couldn't quite keep his McLaren stable. In the downhill section between the Sachs and Ford Kurves, Alonso got a good run on the inside and Massa squeezed him hard. The two banged, Alonso's left sidepod to Massa's front right tire. The damage was minor, but Massa lost a smidge of momentum when the Ferrari staggered slightly. This allowed the McLaren to take the lead, and the win a few laps later. A sweet pass indeed, and our Move of the Race!
*MOOOOO-OOVE OF THE RACE: There is no question that rain makes all drivers release their inner bovines, but this is ridiculous!
So to Jenson Button, Adrian Sutil, Scott Speed, Lewis Hamilton, and Vitantonio Liuzzi, we give the first five-way Mooooo-oove. You're our heroes.
Alonso to Massa during Peter Smarmy's post-race interview: "I apol-o-yize. Heh heh."
Apologies don't get more sincere than that - lol.
(What do you suppose those two were saying to each other on their way to the podium????)
Posted by: Mallory at July 22, 2007 11:21 AM (Bc7do)
3
Am I the only one to spot yet that Jean Todt's sweater has finally removed itself from him, and found a new host body in Schmui?
Oh and another nominee for move of the race I would suggest should be the safety car driver. If you look at the footage of Liuzzi going off, the safety car driver is waiting for the leader, when he suddenly spots Liuzzi sliding backwards towards him at very high speed, and gunned it, getting out of the way just in time. Could have been rather nasty.
Great race, and great update
Posted by: flotsky at July 22, 2007 12:48 PM (/n2FK)
4
Flotsky, I was impressed, if nothing else. It was almost funny, truthfully... you see the safety car picking it's way slowly through the rain as it approached the turn, then for no obvious reason it visibly has full power applied to it.
And then the Toro Rosso enters the picture.
Backwards. At 100mph. And goes right through where the safety car had been a moment before. Eep.
Mallory, I actually prefered the one during Massa's part of the Q&A session. Massa was recapping his view of the incident, and you hear, very quietly, "I ap-lo-gyze"... but Alonso had this big ol' (pardon le French) shit-eating grin on his face. Hmmmmm...
Steven, the rain was pretty heavy, but the worst part was that nobody (save Wincklehock) was prepared for it. Usually the teams know when it's going to rain and have a chance to bring their cars in for galoshes, but this happened at just the wrong moment.
A few minutes earlier, like when they were still sitting on the grid, and the drivers could have made their way around the track at a dead crawl. A few moments later, and the cars would have been a lot nearer the pits (and on the uphill portion of the course).
Instead, the cars were headed downhill (and the Nurb Jr. has one of, if not THE, steepest run downhill in F1), and all the water from the downpour was cascading down the track. I'm kinda surprised there weren't MORE cars in the kittylitter.
My favorite part of that first picture, though, is the fact that there are THREE cars in it... one of them is 90% obscured by Massa's tire spray. I didn't even notice it until after I got the post up.
Posted by: Wonderduck at July 22, 2007 05:17 PM (7MeZM)
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"Dry" tires are slicks, right? "Wet" tires have channels, like the ones on regular car tires?
If all those guys were running slicks, it's no wonder they were slipping and sliding around as if the place was covered in ice. Hydroplane city, especially with that much water on the pavement!
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Steven, dry tires actually aren't slicks, though the difference is minor. F1 dry tires have five grooves in them, as opposed to slicks which are completely unmarked. Take a look at the pics in this post: http://wonderduck.mu.nu/archives/232764.php to see what I mean.
Posted by: Wonderduck at July 23, 2007 12:53 AM (2nDll)
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Well, while the question of whether Lewis Hamilton can walk on water remains open, at least we have some data on how well he drives on it.
That's the end of Lewis Hamilton's run in Q3. A tiregun appears to be to blame, meaning the locking nut may not have been on tight enough. As a result, the wheel would have been moving ever so slightly on the axle. This caused a failure of either the tire, or the wheel (which immediately led to tire failure). The McLaren careened off the track, got airborne when it hit the gravel trap, bounced, and then hit the tire barrier head-on... just one tire's thickness from clearing the barrier completely.
The car then came to a dead stop immediately, like a dart in a board. It almost seemed to stick in the barrier for a heartbeat, then fell to the ground. It was pretty much a worst-case scenario for an accident: 150mph to zero in nothing flat, no rebound, no explosion of car pieces everywhere (a la Montreal). Dale Earnhart Sr. was killed in a similar style of crash, though he didn't have a HANS device, and the concrete is a lot harder than a tire barrier. Fortunately, the in-car camera immediately showed that Hamilton was moving in a controlled manner, meaning that he was more-or-less okay. He kept pumping his legs, as if testing them for injuries, but it took him quite a long time to get out of the McLaren.
Hamilton DID eventually pull himself (slowly) out of the car, and was helicoptered to the Bundeswehrezentralkrankenhaus for tests and observation for a few hours. He eventually returned to the pit lane, and all reports say that he wants to race, though McLaren still has not said that he will. It's a fair bet that he will, since he seems to be uninjured.
In other qualifying news (*chuckle*), Kimi Raikkonen took pole in his Ferrari, Alonso is second, and Massa is third. The BMW Twins are 4th and 5th, with Mark Webber bringing his Red Bull in in 6th. 7th is Renault's Heikki Koveleainineininnie, with the two Toyotas 8th (Jarno) and 9th (Ralfy). The 10th spot is where Hamilton's McLaren qualifies... we'll find out on Sunday if he'll be the one driving it.
The rest of the field:
11. Nico Rosberg Williams-Toyota 1:31.978
12. Alexander Wurz Williams-Toyota 1:31.996
13. Giancarlo Fisichella Renault 1:32.010
14. Rubens Barrichello Honda 1:32.221
15. Anthony Davidson Super Aguri-Honda 1:32.451
16. Takuma Sato Japan Super Aguri-Honda 1:32.838
17. Jenson Button Britain Honda 1:32.983
18. Scott Speed Toro Rosso-Ferrari 1:33.038
19. Vitantonio Liuzzi Toro Rosso-Ferrari 1:33.148
20. David Coulthard Red Bull-Renault 1:33.151
21. Adrian Sutil Germany Spyker-Ferrari 1:34.500
22. Markus Winkelhock Spyker-Ferrari 1:35.940
1
Scary wreck--and a relief to see him getting out of the car.
Interesting news about the possibility of Sebastian Bordais and Red Bull next year. :-)
Posted by: Mallory at July 21, 2007 11:30 PM (Bc7do)
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It sure was a nasty looking hit. That in-car is just gut-wrenching. The blunt deceleration is pretty amazing. Glad he was OK. Equally amazing was the interview with his father during the pre-race where he said Lewis was just worried about how it would affect his race on Sunday!
Posted by: madmike at July 22, 2007 07:02 AM (BWBM2)
So I get home from work, settle in on the nest with a nice bowl of seed and a few slices of rye bread, rewind the videotape, and press play so I can watch today's second practice... and get nothing but a blue screen.
For 100 minutes.
Turns out that The Pond's cable system went out. It's working NOW, of course, but that doesn't help with the F1 Practice recap, now does it?
*ahem*
F1 UPDATE! apologizes, but the report on Practice 2 will be delayed until Saturday afternoon/evening. Until then, please enjoy this:
Wonder if I can get a partnership for my cable company...
First, lets welcome Marcus Winklehock to the F1 family! He's taking the place of Christijan Albers in the Spyker team, at least for this race. He's German, the European Grand Prix is at Nurburgring Junior, so it's a shoe-in!
But after this? The rumors say we'll be welcoming back the first Indian F1 driver, Narain Kittylitter! Way to improve your team, Spyker!
Now then, F1 is entirely on SPEED for the rest of the season, and I couldn't be happier. Yes, the FOX races were essentially the same as what we got on SPEED, but I think the Legendary Announce Team were watering down their race call for the Big Network audience.
We'll find out for sure starting Friday from 7am to 830am, with live coverage of Practice 2. At 11pm, until Midnight, we get F1 Debrief. Come see the LAT sit around with no pants on, talking F1. (get it? "Debrief"?)
I'll pass, though I suppose someone might enjoy it.
On Saturday, from 7am to 830am, we get live coverage of Quals for the European Grand Prix. There's a replay beginning at 1230pm, too!
Sunday, our coverage of race day starts with the GP2 feature race at 5am, until 630am.
Then, the Big Boys come out at 630am, until 9am, for the European Grand Prix, LIVE. The race is replayed at 1130am.
Let's see if the home crowd gives BMW any boost... I'm getting bored with seeing Ferrari and McLaren owning the first two rows on the grid.
1
THANK GOODNESS! The Fox coverage sucked, IMO. Not the LAT, but Fox's haste to get on to the next show once the race was over. If you invest the time to sit and watch a whole race, I really felt cheated when they'd skim over the podium ceremony and the anthems. That's part of F1, as far as I'm concerned.
Kittylitter or Winklehock? Gotta love those names.
Posted by: Mallory at July 19, 2007 12:56 AM (KJzva)
Over at Chizumatic, Steven is talking about who Mikuru from Haruhi Suzumiya really is, and mentions that "some fans speculate that Mikuru is actually Kyon's younger sister." He then goes on to say that "they have the same eyes."
Hmm. Sounds like a fun bit of speculation, and one that I had no previous opinion on... let's take a look! I called up my AFK fansubs (which gives us a lot more opportunities to take screenshots of Imouto-chan), and photoshop, and started snappin'. I tried to match camera angles as much as possible on all of these, of course, and I used the left eye of each... here's a result:
Top row, L to R, we have Imouto, Mikuru and Haruhi (for comparison). Haruhi's looks like Imouto's but not Mikuru's. Mikuru's is longer than Imouto's or Haruhi's... I think.
Bottom row, we've got Imouto and Mikuru. The shapes of the eyes are... different, but that might be because Imouto is grumpy in her shot, where Mikuru is happy.
Still, not exactly a ringing endorsement of the "same eyes" arguement, but not enough to disprove the theory. Further study I leave to the interested individual; I don't see Imouto being a younger version of Mikuru, m'self, but I'm not about to rule it out, either, based on my short experiment.
Then, for a lark, I decided to go farther afield... for your entertainment, here's even MORE left eyes:
Can you name them? Answers and further discussion below:
more...
This past weekend, the Philadelphia Phillies became the first professional sports team in any league anywhere to lose 10,000 games.
That's quite the achievement. Think about it: they have gone out and lost an average of 80 games a season for the past 125 years. These days, that's not so horrible, what with the season being 162 games long. But for a long, LONG time, 154 games or fewer was the norm.
Still, one has to tip the cap to the Phils. You don't get to lose that many games without doing something right! So, in honor of their record, I present them with this:
1
Yeah, 10,000 losses... they won the World Series. Seriously, when you're one of the oldest professional baseball teams... you're going to get to 10,000 losses sooner or later.
Posted by: Ieslabeg at January 01, 2009 02:13 PM (FtNbJ)
2
Well, I can't say quite yet, as I've only watched the first few minutes so far. Prolly right, though.
They do make a joke out of the fact that she's so small for a high schooler, though, so bonus points for that at least.
Posted by: Wonderduck at July 15, 2007 05:14 PM (2nDll)
3
I watched the whole ep. Look, I can deal with little girls in my anime - I'm a Nanoha fan, for goodness sake - but criminy! It's not comfortable when you get the idea that the animators are subtly pandering to the pedophile - but this show's wearing the whole thing on its sleeve, man. Even the setup (that she's just really kiddy for a high schooler) smacks of the disclaimers on hentai games that "all of the characters in this game are over 18" when it's set in a middle school.
Less loli, more hilarious Engrish, I might give it another shot. Or maybe if they made a Maritan anime - it's a Moetan parody that teaches the Japanese to curse like a US marine, complete with racial epithets. But I think I'm done with this show...
Posted by: Avatar at July 15, 2007 09:33 PM (dlP4b)
According to Tony George, Indianapolis Motor Speedway CEO, he and Darth Ecclestone have mutually agreed to not schedule a Grand Prix at Indy in 2008.
"After several discussions, Bernie Ecclestone and I were unable to agree how to keep Formula 1 in Indianapolis for the near term. However, we have agreed to leave the door open for a potential future date. It has been a pleasure having the United States Grand Prix at Indianapolis, and I hope that as we approach our Centennial Era at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway, an opportunity might present itself that would allow its return."
The fees charged to allow a F1 race to be run at a location are prohibitive; almost all F1 races are subsidized by the national governments. The two that are not are British and the USGP. Well, the one that isn't; the USGP is dead now... and Darth Ecclestone has been trying to kill Silverstone for years.
Of course, Ecclestone has repeatedly stated that "F1 doesn't need America." Guess he'll find out just how correct his statement is now, won't he?
SONOFABEECHMARTIN!!!
Frickin' moron. He'd be happy with karts going around the block and calling it F1, if it'd bring him more cash.
1
So that makes twice now that the USGP has died. Is there a chance they'll find a suitable venue in time for next season, or this stuff already supposed to be mostly worked out by now?
2
Damned if we need yet another sports enterprise sucking at the taxdollar teat IMHO. The tax subsidy for football and basketball is way too much as it is.
3
No chance at all. It's not a scheduling thing at the moment (for example, the French GP doesn't have a track for 2008 yet).
It's entirely due to Ecclestone's antipathy towards racing in the US. There are more suitable tracks for a F1 race in America than there are in the rest of the world combined (just off the top of my head: RoadAmerica, Watkins Glen, Laguna Seca, Mid-Ohio, Sebring, Sears Point, hell, even Road Atlanta, not to mention the places that have ALREADY held the USGP, like Las Vegas, Detroit, etc etc etc); he just doesn't want to have one here.
It's a moot point, really. If someone doesn't step up with the megabucks immediately, there's no chance in hell a race could possibly happen in 2008... not that there's a chance in hell of that happening anyway.
Posted by: Wonderduck at July 12, 2007 02:31 PM (A5s0y)
4
No disagreement, Steven. I'm not suggesting the NATIONAL government foot the bill for a F1 race (like happens just about everywhere else). I was pointing out that the fees for such a race are very high, and other races DO get Federal subsidies (as opposed to local, like football or baseball).
Posted by: Wonderduck at July 12, 2007 02:34 PM (A5s0y)
5
Ecclestone would have all the races in the Middle-East, with sponsorship solely from tobacco companies if he could. On soulless tracks in various deserts. I wish he'd go off and have his own racing series, and leave F1 well alone.
Posted by: flotsky at July 12, 2007 07:45 PM (6T2ID)
6
F1 doesn't need the America. What a lovely sentiment from Bernie. Grrrrrrrrr.
You'd think he'd at least be interested in Sears Point--snooty wine country and all.
One of my favorite things about F1--aside from the racing--is seeing the different countries.
This is really disappointing news.
Posted by: Mallory at July 13, 2007 12:53 AM (KJzva)
7
How old is Bernie, anyways? When he retires (which should be soon, I would think), who's in line to take over? Hopefully it'll be someone who isn't as stupid or as arrogant as Bernie is.
As for the Indy F1 track, I was never a big fan of it, or of hybrid "roval" tracks in general. I'd vote for Laguna Seca for the new home of the USGP, if only to see F1 cars tackle the Corkscrew.
Posted by: Peter the Not-so-Great at July 13, 2007 04:34 AM (DbCFV)
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Peter, Bernie Ecclestone is undead. He's over 2000 years old, and will never die until a sitting F1 driver puts a carbon fibre stake through his heart.
(note: he was born in Oct. 29, 1930, so he's actually 76... he claims.)
Posted by: Wonderduck at July 13, 2007 09:19 AM (A5s0y)
Well if you look at it from a British perspective F1 doesn't REALLY need a GP in the US. Most of the sponsors are trying to appeal to the rest of the world, not America. Put simply its why Red Bull set up a NASCAR team. Unless the race was switched to a night race the broadcast times for Europe are odd to say the least which results in lower viewing figures, and lets be honest the ratings are bigger this side of the pond than on your's.
The track is also wrong and doesn't suit F1 cars and their aero/suspension packages and no other track in States except possibly Daytona has the name or prestige.
Erm.. there is one more point which is that "Road Couses" are not the dominant form of racing in the States. Which probably explains why F1 has never taken off and why conversley NASCAR doesn't work over here when you consider there are only two ovals in Europe that anyone has ever remotley heard of.
Anyway just felt the need to redress the balance a little. All the best for 2008.
Posted by: Le Reve at December 28, 2007 10:48 PM (WOOdT)
Le Reve, there are quite a few road courses here in the States that would be able to handle a F1 race quite handily, including some that have both the name AND the prestige.
Or, perhaps, you don't think the names Laguna Seca or Watkins Glen are prestigious enough? Bringing the pits up to F1 specs would be a trivial exercise. Road America in Wisconsin would be suitable as well, though it'd need more work than the other two.
And that's just off the top of my head, from personal experience. I gather Road Atlanta could work, Daytona has a road course that the ALMS uses... the list goes on and on.
By leaving the US, Bernie has completely shut F1 from a gigantic market. There are many, MANY ways to market the sport to US race fans... and don't forget that the USGP routinely had the largest attendance figures of any F1 race. Yes, the Indy F1 layout wasn't good, granted, but it was at least as good (excitement-wise) as Monaco or that travesty in France.
Believe me, if F1 put any effort into promoting itself here in the US, they'd clean up, bigtime. Instead, Darth Bernie and the Emperor Mosely put their efforts into violating their own rulebook and selling their souls to Bahrain...
Posted by: Wonderduck at December 29, 2007 02:41 AM (UdB9M)
Well Watkins Glen was used by F1 in the 70's I think admittedly don't know too much about Laguna Seca so don't know if that would work. As for Daytona that wouldn't work as F1 cars struggle with the banking at Indy (seee the USGP 2005 for that one) then there is no way they could work on the even steeper Daytona banks.
As for whether F1 does need America or not really comes down to sponsors and TV. Most of F1's main sponsors are either European (Vodafone, ING, Red Bull) or trying to expand into Europe (AT&T) and Europe is the backbone of the TV audience. Whilst I accept your point that Indy was the best attended race on the calendar that could be put down to, could it not, that Indy simply has a bigger capacity and all things considered it was never anywhere near to its capacity unlike the European Races (neither is Malayasia either but thats a different arguement).
As for the quality of the track it is fabulous but Indianapolis (sp?)as a city isn't exactly the best in the world and the F1 people complain constantly about the Airport. One theory being bandied round is that Las Vegas could be the home of the USGP but Bernie wants a race down the Strip not through the backstreets and that could prove its undoing.
A further point could be that at the time the story broke there was a lot of talk that F1's parent company was putting together a bid for NASCAR. A major promotinal and advertising campaign could have undermined such a bid and resulted in a reduced bargaining position. That would also have resulted in F1 abandoning America all together and leaving it to the subsidiary to sort out.
As a final point the fact that F1 has failed to suceed in America but has in the rest of the world could be similar to the fact that gridiron doesn't work outside of America but football doesn't work in America. The fact that both NASCAR and gridiron are both so entrenched in the America culture could make it near impossible for F1 to ever make it's mark.
Posted by: Le Reve at December 31, 2007 10:37 PM (2NRBS)
Sponsors... you'd think that companies like RedBull or IMG would kill to have US dollars coming in, wouldn't you? Well, RedBull does already (they sponsor so many teams in the US in SO many series that it's ridiculous), but you know what I mean.
Posted by: Wonderduck at January 01, 2008 12:09 AM (DcSb+)
Baseball is successfull in certain areas where cricket isn't established but yes you are right in a sorta way...but anyway to the business at hand. Yes the sponsors would love to advertise in America but there's no point in trying to do that through F1. Put simply it doesn't have the reach or the impact to make it worthwhile and it is more cost effective to buy a NASCAR team to do that (Team Red Bull would be the case in point) whereas in Europe it's better to be in F1 (Red Bull Racing, Scuderia Toro Rosso) which while a hell of a lot more expensive gives better reach to the rest of the world.
While I would say, from a fans point of view it would be nice to have a USGP, F1 from a commercial viewpoint doesn't NEED it.
Posted by: Le Reve at January 01, 2008 12:30 AM (2NRBS)
Erm.. ok so the fact that theres a cricket World Cup and a twenty20 World Chapionships. As opposed to the nature of a tournament where the competitors from just two countries take part and then laughingly call it "The World Series." But to be honest which is more popular depends on where you happen to live. If you'd have said basketball you'd have more of a point though.
Your right the Canadian race doesn't make a huge amount of money but at he same time unlike the USGP it does pay a full sanctioning fee and doesn't complain about it. whereas the American Race pays a ten percent fee and was due to go to a full fee next season. I really cant see how F1 needs the US which is really the point here if it does surely the teams and sponsors would be falling over themslves to support it but they haven't said a word about it. That, to me, says a lot about how much F1 needs America.
Posted by: Le Reve at January 01, 2008 10:54 AM (2NRBS)
It never has been, but then again, why was baseball dropped for 2012?
Right which team(s) wanted a second USGP? Why would they want to add yet another fly-away race to the calendar? There used to be two US races, East and West but that was back before the calendar expanded to 17/ 18 races per year.
I'm just going to say this once more, from a fans point of view it is good to have a USGP, but F1 as a sport doesn't need a race in America. There simply isn't any commercial value in it being there while NASCAR is totally dominant in the marketplace.
Posted by: Le Reve at January 03, 2008 03:09 AM (7ghbN)
20
The auto manufacturers believe there is commercial value in F1 in the US. BMW, Mercedes Benz and Ferrari all find the US market to be extremely important. As far as other venues in the US go... Laguna Seca is an FIA spec. track. They upgraded it a number of years back for an FIA Sports Car event and an FIA Motorcycle event. Sears Point (Infineon Raceway) hosts a round of the ALMS series, so the course is sound, but the problem these two venues have is the amenities. Garages, grandstands, etc. Infineon in particular (which is only 10 miles from my house) would be completely restricted from constructing anything else. And the surrounding residents would throw a fit about the number of people attending. There's also only two "two lane" roads in or out of the area. NASCAR draws over 100,000 fans for their Infineon race, and last time it took me 4 hours to drive the 10 miles home. Laguna would be a gorgeous venue, but again, the amenities that F1 is used to just aren't there.
Posted by: madmike at January 03, 2008 08:39 AM (xwTH1)
As far as it being another flyaway race, no, not really. They'd already be
HERE. If they did a USGP #1, Canadian GP, USGP #2 cycle, that's one trip, three
races... which, coincidentally, would mean a nice long stay in North America,
and LESS travel for the teams.
Please also note that on the 2008 calendar, eight of the 18 races scheduled
are "fly-away", and one could even argue that nine of them are, considering the
trip to Turkey.
So much for that. Your hat, let me hand it to you.
Posted by: Wonderduck at January 03, 2008 10:11 PM (AW3EJ)
22
Ah, Mr. Duck, but Ferrarri didn't say that, and they're the only team that matter donchaknow...
Posted by: Steven Den Beste at January 03, 2008 10:42 PM (+rSRq)
23
By the way, anyone who thinks that NASCAR dominates motor sports in the US <a href="http://www.nhra.com/">is an idiot</a>.
Posted by: Steven Den Beste at January 03, 2008 10:45 PM (+rSRq)
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And so am I, for forgetting which comment entry system I'm using.
Posted by: Steven Den Beste at January 03, 2008 10:45 PM (+rSRq)
Not sure if you noticed this but the story is 18 months old. Also did Ferrari, Renault, Red Bull, Toyota, Jordan/Midland/Spyker/Force (Which ever one it is this week), or Williams comment?
Erm.. as for Turkey being a fly-away no not really as most teams take their full commercial amenities to the track, in addition to have three consecutive races would... unusual in F1 double headers tend to be the rough limits.
By the way, anyone who thinks that NASCAR dominates motor sports in the US is an idiot.
Not quite sure whether youre saying drag racing is more popular or has more competitors or what? Anyway based on total attendance the BTCC is more popular than F1 but it doesn't hold a candle to it in terms of sponsorship, TV audience or prestige. I think though I'm not sure that NASCAR would walk all over drag racing on those terms.
As for trying to argue that the F1 teams would alredy be there. That may be true but for the mechanics and lorry drivers etc. it would mean yet another weekend away from home on a different continent. I have also heard rumours in mags over here that occassionally race kit is damaged by US officials as it goes through customs and the teams dislike having their fingerprints taken as if their criminals. There are more issues than solely racing ones here but it is mostly a cultural one.
Posted by: Le Reve at January 04, 2008 10:03 PM (iWG9N)
Yes, I'm aware the article was 18 months old. But consider Mr. Haug's quote: "We should not give up on this." Think that means that he's changed his mind?
You asked which teams said they thought two races in the US was a good idea, I provided. Since you didn't believe that ANY of them would want two races in the US, don't be moving the goalposts now.
It's another week away from home, yes. It's their job... it's not like they're home all that much during the season anyway, if you believe the hype of the teams working 'round the clock getting ready for the next race.
Okay, Turkey isn't a flyaway. That means that it's only eight out of 18 ARE, just 44% of the season instead of 50%... my point, whatever it was, still remains: F1 ain't as "Eurocentric" as you think it is.
Why, exactly, did you perform necromancy on this thread in the first place, Le Reve?
Posted by: Wonderduck at January 05, 2008 02:15 AM (UdB9M)
27
>> That may be true but for the mechanics and lorry drivers etc. it would mean yet another weekend away from home on a different continent. I have also heard rumours in mags over here that occassionally race kit is damaged by US officials as it goes through customs and the teams dislike having their fingerprints taken as if their criminals. There are more issues than solely racing ones here but it is mostly a cultural one. << I've spent many an evening in Indianapolis on race weekend talking to Mechanics and Team Members at various restaurants or "Watering Holes"... and they've expressed nothing but pleasure at being here. And I didn't read that in a magazine. I've never understood why we don't see a part of the season that concentrates specifically on the Americas. You could run Canada, US, Brazil, and if they worked at it could probably drum up a Mexican GP as well. The idea that everyone is away from home for too long is idiotic. When you take a job in F-1, I'm sure you know that it will involve travel. And the travel to various locales is probably one of the attractions to such a job. It's not like there's any shortage of folks who would love to have an "F1-travel-the-world" job.
Posted by: madmike at January 05, 2008 10:45 AM (xwTH1)
"Well, you won't have Christijan Albers to kick around anymore," yelled the driver as he stormed out of the Spyker offices.
The office staff snickered, and one wag replied by saying "That's right, and our refueling rigs are celebrating as we speak."
Albers walked a short distance from the Spyker building and sat on the curb, head bowed. "I don't understand," he muttered. "It's not MY fault my sponsorship money didn't come through. Did they have to fire me for that? Aren't I the best offroad driver in F1?"
A dark man stood above Albers, silhouetted against the noonday sun. "Csakugyan? Neked van nem sikerul," said the man, who looked vaguely familiar.
"I know you, don't I," asked Albers. "Why do you speak Hungarian?"
"En vagyok kerlelhetetlen halal, ugyel vmire teged. Eljossz?" The dark man extended his hand to Albers.
He took the gloved hand. "You remind me of..."
The dark man raised the visor of his helmet. "Would you like fries with that?"
Albers screamed.
All that was ever found was Albers' driving boots, smoking on the sidewalk, and next to them, the letter Z carved into the concrete.
The wails can be heard across the pond (as opposed to The Pond), so I think we'd best get this edition of the F1 UPDATE! a-goin'!
*THE ICEMAN COMETH: Two in a row, and first man to three wins, Kimi Raikkonen has hoisted himself back into the Driver's Championship. It's also the second race that he's won in the second round of pitstops, but it took some serious driving to pull it off. He stayed glued to Hamilton's tail in the first stint, who proved to be running on a light fuel load. When he couldn't pull away from Kimi, Lewis' chance to win disappeared. Alonso took the lead after the first round of stops, but only because McLaren short-fueled him... and HE couldn't get away from Kimi, either. Raikkonen pounded out four or five brutally fast laps after Alonso's stop, and came out a couple of seconds ahead after his 2nd stop... and the race was over. Ferrari brought the speed today, but Kimi really made it work.
*...WHA HOPPEN?: Lewis Hamilton should have been able to make this a good race. After the first pit rotation, though, he fell from first to third, and just disappeared. He seemed to be having problem adjusting to his tires in the middle stint, and his car performance just cratered in the final run. He was still on the podium, true, but that's really only because Felipe Massa's Ferrari stalled on the grid and he wound up having to start from the pitlane. Lewismania is still alive and well, but this would have to be the most disappointing race of his career. All nine races of it.
*DRIVER OF THE RACE: Choose a Ferrari! Raikkonen wins with an impressive run, Massa finishes fifth despite starting from the pits. In fact, he was 10th by lap 8, and at one point was as high as third. We're going to give it to Massa, but if you think Kimi deserves it, we sure won't argue with you.
*TEAM OF THE RACE: McLaren. Ferrari had the impressive drives, but McLaren still had both cars on the podium, and it took some perfect racing from Kimi Raikkonen and perfect strategy from the team to keep Alonso from the win. They still have the same point lead in the constructor's championship that they had when they started the day, so it was a good day for them. But if Felipe Massa hadn't stalled on the grid...
*MOVE OF THE RACE: On lap 7 of Felipe Massa's charge through the field, he came upon the battle for 10th place between David Coulthard's Chin and Nico Rosberg. At Vale, Rosberg got into the grass, The Chin bobbled, and Massa nearly drove past them both at once. Instead, he only got Wonderboy, but was all over the back of Red Bull. DC'sC held off Massa for only a short time, but then Massa was gone, off in pursuit of Jarno Trulli. A nice little sequence, and quite deserving of the MotR.
*MOOOOOOOO-OOVE OF THE RACE: Even the best get it wrong sometimes. They make one little mistake and their multi-million dollar triumph of engineering suddenly looks like a hoofed ruminant, grazing it's way across the fields. Today's Mooooo-oove wasn't quite as bad as Christijan Albers driving away with the fuel hose, but it could count as the first true race mistake of Lewis Hamilton's career. The young lad pits from the lead on lap 16, and a flawless pitstop begins... until the lollypop man signals Master Lewis to prepare to drive away. Hamilton, who probably had more adrenaline in him than any 20 normal beings, began to drive away... with the fuel hose still attached. He only lurched a foot or two, no real harm except for a couple of extra seconds lost, but it's the first sign of rookie behaviour (note British spelling) from the 22-year old. Nicely done, Lewis Hamilton, here's your first Mooooo-oove!
Starship Troopers was the first sci-fi book I ever read, and got me hooked on the genre for life. I'm proud to have a complete collection of his books on my shelves.
The man invented waldos, the waterbed, helped with the creation of the spacesuit, and was the first to use the word "moonbat".
I can't stand Stranger In A Strange Land, which I think is a pretentious pile of steaming dingo kidneys, and some of his later books show signs of having been affected by his TIA, blocked carotid artery, and 2-year bout with peritonitis, but even the worst Heinlein novels (except for Farnham's Freehold, which is his weakest book ever) are better than 75% of all books ever (in my opinion, of course; your mileage may vary).
His juveniles, while now dated (having been written over 50 years ago), still hold up well, just as ripping yarns... I suspect kids would still get a kick out of them.
His attitude towards sexuality, race, religion, and individualism inspired and educated my own.
It may not be hyperbole for me to say that nobody influenced me more (save Momzerduck, of course) growing up than Robert Heinlein. I don't, and didn't, agree with everything he proposed, but he, more than any other author, made me think.
For that, if nothing else, I can only say 'thank you, Robert Heinlein.'
And happy birthday!
Oh, and for the record? My favorite of his books are, in order, The Moon is a Harsh Mistress, Job: A Comedy of Justice, and Double Star.
Rule Brittania! Britannia, rule the track: Hamilton never will be slow, that's the fact!
Even though he was overdriving his McLaren, pushing too hard and actually going too wide on the last turn, Lewis Hamilton managed to turn in a lap fast enough to bring him pole at his home Grand Prix. And the crowd goes wild. The lads in the McLaren paddock were going crazy, and even the generally staid 'Voice of McLaren' was sounding somewhat excited. Quite the moment for the lad.
And quite the letdown for Kimi Raikkonen, who had pole for about 30 seconds, pulling out a fantastic lap, despite looking like he was destined for row 2 at the beginning of it. Fernando Alonso ended up third, having been aced by Raikkonen at the last instant. Felipe Massa was 4th, completing the 2nd row.
McLaren, Ferrari, McLaren, Ferrari. Hm. Have we seen this before? Maybe this isn't surprising; with the espionage scandal floating around, I wonder if Ferrari had anything to do with the design of the McLaren? (see the extended entry below for an overview)
The rest of the grid:
5. Robert Kubica Poland BMW 1:20.401
6. Ralf Schumacher Germany Toyota 1:20.516
7. Heikki Kovalainen Finland Renault 1:20.721
8. Giancarlo Fisichella Italy Renault 1:20.775
9. Nick Heidfeld Germany BMW 1:20.894
10. Jarno Trulli Italy Toyota 1:21.240
11. Mark Webber Australia Red Bull-Renault 1:20.235
12. David Coulthard Britain Red Bull-Renault 1:20.329
13. Alexander Wurz Austria Williams-Toyota 1:20.350
14. Rubens Barrichello Brazil Honda 1:20.364
15. Scott Speed United States Toro Rosso-Ferrari 1:20.515
16. Vitantonio Liuzzi Italy Toro Rosso-Ferrari 1:20.823
17. Nico Rosberg Germany Williams-Toyota 1:21.219
18. Jenson Button Britain Honda 1:21.335
19. Anthony Davidson Britain Super Aguri-Honda 1:21.448
20. Adrian Sutil Germany Spyker-Ferrari 1:22.019
21. Takuma Sato Japan Super Aguri-Honda 1:22.045
22. Christijan Albers Netherlands Spyker-Ferrari 1:22.589
One interesting note on the factory Honda team is that they've gone back to their 2006-spec chassis: the same car SuperAguri has been driving all year. It's amazing that, despite all the money sunk into the 2007, they had to go back to last season's... and that it took them this long to make the call.
Click below for information on the ongoing Espionage Scandal, Stepneygate.
more...
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WHEW! Hamilton got the pole. I should have known better, but the last few seconds were kind of iffy.
Posted by: Mallory at July 07, 2007 06:11 AM (Bc7do)
2
That was a stunning lap from Hamilton, almost out of nowhere. I'm off upstairs in half an hour to watch every last second of coverage, and to let mrsfb avoid having to.
Posted by: flotsky at July 07, 2007 10:36 PM (/n2FK)
Usual practice session for a F1 race today. Nothing really worthwhile to mention on the track, nobody setting jaw-dropping times or the like.
Which is not to say there wasn't anything going on...
Here we see the RedBull of David Coulthard's Chin. Did it...
A) ...Just drive past some diarrhea-suffering pigeons?
B) ...Have some problems at the printers?
C) ...Have a photo-montage for a charity event put on for this race?
This is the view from American Scott Speed's onboard T-camera. What is happening?
A) Blancmange! (particularly appropriate, given Wimbleton going on and all...)
B) Attack of the plastic bags!
C) I want to believe.
Ferrari had something new on their front wheels today. Was it:
A) Pizza pan?
B) E-Z Lift (tm) Handles?
C) Air Extractor?
