home
I love that single-minded purpose (2.00 / 4) (#2)
by Juanita Moreno on Mon Nov 22, 2021 at 03:21:32 AM EST
I think the decision to put Kyle on the stand wasn't a close call because there's no question he was defending himself from violent men intent on causing harm. I wish folks would break free of the social and corporate-owned media manipulation surrounding this and other incidents and start thinking for themselves again. This case exposes a very dangerous trend of deliberate "divide and conquer" strategies that are destroying our country. The case is a referendum on so many issues we are grappling with - race, racism, gun rights, how to keep guns out of the hands of those who seek to harm others, how to ensure we can protect ourselves from those who want to cause us harm and even the corporate manipulation strategies that are sucking the life out of our nation.

What a breath of fresh air to hear his attorney reject the idea of causes this case represents to focus and win on the facts and evidence in this case. Kyle Rittenhouse is not what the media portrayed him as. He's just a young man who tried to do what's right who got duped into participating and now has to live with what the violent men who attacked him forced him to do to protect his life.

His life will be hard from here forward, but the question is what can the rest of us do to prevent these kinds of disastrous conflicts in the future. I hope we can break down the artificial divides created by corporate media dishonesty and find the shared goals and values that will allow us to reclaim the promise this country has always offered - shared prosperity and equal opportunity for all.

so (5.00 / 1) (#7)
by FlJoe on Mon Nov 22, 2021 at 12:27:01 PM EST
the poor sap got "duped into participating". Who pray tell did this duping? I see nothing from you condemning the NRA, the right wing Militia groups and the pundits and  politicians. Instead you put the onus on us lefties who are appalled by the violence to show a little more compassion for fools with guns,  as if a little more understanding from us would bring peace upon the land.

That little punk armed himself for war and he found it, yet somehow in your eyes he and his enablers are not culpable for it.
 

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Us lefties (3.00 / 2) (#32)
by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Tue Nov 23, 2021 at 05:24:37 PM EST
Appalled by violence!  Antifa/BLM (lefty) riots left many dead and countless livelihoods burned to the ground. All cheered on by lefties siting "justified rage."  

To get the ball rolling in Kenosha lefty governor Tony Evers issued the following call to arms following the Jacob Blake shooting.

WHILE WE DO NOT HAVE ALL OF THE DETAILS YET, WHAT WE KNOW FOR CERTAIN IS THAT HE IS NOT THE FIRST BLACK MAN OR PERSON TO HAVE BEEN SHOT OR INJURED OR MERCILESSLY KILLED AT THE HANDS OF INDIVIDUALS IN LAW ENFORCEMENT IN OUR STATE OR OUR COUNTRY.

Then to make sure the lefty rioters and arsonists would not be to inhibited he limited the National Guard call out to a grossly insufficient 125 for a mob estimated in low six figures.
 

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Don't be such a (5.00 / 1) (#33)
by jondee on Tue Nov 23, 2021 at 05:41:50 PM EST
a transparently idiotic putz, Tucker.

You can't point to one post here of anyone "cheering on" violence and destruction.

If you have such a desperate, uncontrollable need to lie out your ass, go back to talking about how Trump won and Sandy Hook was a false flag.


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Stop lying (5.00 / 4) (#35)
by FlJoe on Tue Nov 23, 2021 at 05:57:42 PM EST
the BLM protests were overwhelming peaceful considering their size and scope. You guys gripe about fake news, while the BS that that spews from you is incredible. Your words
Antifa/BLM (lefty) riots left many dead and countless livelihoods burned to the ground. All cheered on by lefties siting "justified rage."
are much more inflammatory then Evers' and are also a lie.  

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You have no cites (5.00 / 1) (#38)
by MKS on Tue Nov 23, 2021 at 07:18:42 PM EST
to support any of this rubbish.

Show me your evidence or supporting facts or any of this.....

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Source that quote, please (none / 0) (#39)
by Towanda on Tue Nov 23, 2021 at 09:11:24 PM EST
as I am in Wisconsin and followed every story that I could find on the Blake case -- from rightwing as well as leftwing blogs, in addition to mainstream media -- and I also follow Evers and his staffers on Twitter,

And I never saw that from the Governor.

And had he said it, the rightwing bloggers here still would be posting it daily.

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Evers Quote (none / 0) (#43)
by BGinCA on Wed Nov 24, 2021 at 08:10:34 AM EST
From Evers Twitter account on Aug. 23 2020
https://twitter.com/govevers/status/1297739245507903490

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Funny (none / 0) (#47)
by FlJoe on Wed Nov 24, 2021 at 10:59:02 AM EST
how the original was not in ALL CAPS. Just an innocent transcription error I'm sure.

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Yeah, I noticed that, too (none / 0) (#78)
by Towanda on Wed Nov 24, 2021 at 06:40:28 PM EST
Thanks (none / 0) (#79)
by Towanda on Wed Nov 24, 2021 at 06:41:52 PM EST
Abduhl, shouldn't you and Juanita (none / 0) (#123)
by cpinva on Sat Nov 27, 2021 at 09:44:00 PM EST
be back in Russia by now? No doubt Comrade Putin would like to have a word or two, with the both of you, about just how badly your attempts at trolling have gone.

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I think it's because it obvious that he's not anything like he's been portrayed for the past year by the media. I think the defense saw what I saw - a misguided kid who was in way over his head, who shouldn't have been there that night yet was earnest in his desire to protect his community. The adults who encouraged him to help defend Kenosha should have realized the risks and told him he's too young. If I had been there, I would have told him he'll be a target for rioters angry at people putting out fires or stopping the violence. I know this because I've been at protests that turned into riots. I've put out fires, I've tried to deescalate protesters before they start creating chaos. I even taught anti-violence tactics for Occupy Wall Street protests way back in when it began. I wish the adults in Kyle's life supported his good intentions but counseled him not to help because his youth itself would make him a target of violent men. That's why I encouraged people here to open their hearts and minds and consider providing guidance to young men like him.

Read that comment quickly before it disappears. It looks like some down-raters are trying to make sure good people who visit this site don't get to read my suggestions. Heck, even my Choose kindness comment was deemed too threatening or something to allow other readers to see it. Really? Do we have to accept slurs against poor people in order to be acceptable at TalkLeft?

From the testimony and video evidence, it's clear that this kid didn't pick a fight with the nutcase who called him the N-word and screamed that he was going to kill him. Please take the time to listen to Kyle talk before the riots started as he explains that he has his med kit to help people and he needs a weapon to protect himself because he might have to run into danger. Well that certainly turned out to be true. It's obvious Kyle had good intentions but didn't realize that a protest might draw men as dangerous as Rosenbaum. I've also had personal experience with violent, aggressive men intent on killing or causing serious harm. There's no question someone like Rosenbaum could kill a woman or a teenager like Kyle with his bare hands. Yet NPR and others try to characterize him as a peaceful protester armed only with a plastic bag. Pffttt. Unlike Kyle, evidence shows Rosenbaum was intent on causing harm from the very first videos we've seen of him screaming at people and trying to initiate fights.

As a woman who is weaker than an aggressive adult man, I empathize with how it might have felt when Kyle was being attacked by the vicious, dangerous man that Rosenbaum ended up being. It's ok with me if you want to believe the opposite, that Rosenbaum, the pedophile who was arrested for sexually assaulting at least 5 children, was actually some kind of hero while Kyle was a racist, white nationalist agitator from out of state who illegally bought an AR-15 (CNN, MSNBC and npr/NYT are still claiming that), carried it across state lines for the purpose of murdering peaceful protesters. That Kyle was "brandishing" his weapon (another lie npr/NYT and others are still saying but I'll retract that if someone, anyone posts a video of him waving his rifle around or inappropriately pointing it at peaceful protesters). Many still believe that Kyle was an "active shooter," a description that disparages the pain and suffering caused by actual active shooters who have deliberately murdered innocent children in our schools, lesbians and gays, movie and mall-goers and co-workers who in no way deserved their wrath. That he picked a fight with Rosenbaum before murdering him, a claim clearly disproven by testimony and actual court evidence. See the FBI infrared videos that show Rosenbaum waiting or hiding between two cars, coming out only after Kyle had walked past. Remember, Rosenbaum threatened to kill both Kyle and Jason Lackowski, the ex-marine he was with. But it was Kyle he waited to target, the younger, weaker, less experienced teenager.

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Sorry, I must have forgotten (none / 0) (#16)
by Juanita Moreno on Tue Nov 23, 2021 at 09:36:11 AM EST
to condemn the NRA, the right wing Militia groups, pundits and politicians before addressing what I wanted to comment on which is why I think the defense attorney said his decision to put Kyle on the stand wasn't a close call (the topic of this thread).

So let me take care of my omission right now before you downrate this comment too:

     The NRA sucks. They're a greedy, unethical organization whose leaders prey on people's fears to convince them to spend huge amounts of money on guns. ✓  They also support terrible right wing Republican politicians, whom I despise. ✓  I also dislike most right-wing pundits, especially the ones that continually lie. ✓  Not happy about left-wing pundits who lie either, especially those who keep repeating the disproven characterizations of Rittenhouse. I am furious with the government and police allowing endless violence at what could be peaceful protests, putting all of us at risk. I don't think right-wing militias are a good solution either, which is why I suggested we do this to prevent a dangerous void that leads to armed citizens protecting their communities. You'll have to read that comment quickly because my good ideas might soon disappear to appease those here who have forgotten how or are simply unwilling to agree to disagree.

Now that that's done, is it now OK to post my opinion on the topic in this thread?


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Do you get paid by the word? (4.56 / 9) (#18)
by leap on Tue Nov 23, 2021 at 10:28:22 AM EST
---

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Shorter (5.00 / 1) (#22)
by FlJoe on Tue Nov 23, 2021 at 12:12:53 PM EST
Juanita: I alone get to decide who the good guys and the bad guys are and vigilante justice rocks!

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Ha, sorry. I have strong feelings (3.50 / 2) (#20)
by Juanita Moreno on Tue Nov 23, 2021 at 11:15:00 AM EST
and my previous comments might disappear. Folks can just jump past my ideas if they're wrong or tl;dr But for those who agree with my analysis of the problem, maybe it's helpful to have a big synopsis to share with others.

I'm really trying to do what I can to make things better but social media seems to be causing everyone to dig in with hatred towards anyone with a different analysis of the situation even though we have shared values and goals. If we can't agree on what transpired, we can't work together to prevent future tragedies. If you mistakenly try to fix the wrong problem (like "Kyle is a murderer,") it's like changing your bike tire when you have a flat on your car. You won't get far.

To put him on the stand, they must have seen him as I do. If you want to continue to believe the negative characterization promoted by the very media that makes millions of dollars off these divisions they create, feel free to do so. I prefer to seek the truth, and I hope other viewers do also. If I'm wrong, please someone post a picture that validates the corporate media's depiction of the events. Find any picture of Kyle "brandishing his weapon" (waving it around). Post any video of him approaching Rosenbaum that might contradict the other videos that show Rosenbaum attacking Kyle from behind. Thousands of videos and pictures were taken that night. Surely if the corporate media is right, there are pictures or testimony or something to back up their claims. The FBI infrared video shows the entire event: Rosenbaum went after Kyle without provocation and may have even been hiding in wait. And no, having a weapon to stop rioters from hurting you is not provocation or reasonable grounds for attacking Kyle. Kyle wisely ran away (retreated) from the aggressive Rosenbaum. It wasn't until Rosenbaum had cornered Kyle and Rosenbaum's friend or associate Josh Ziminski fired the weapon he had been carrying around all night (yep, that's on video too) that Kyle turned and defended himself against a vicious man who had earlier called him a F@cking N-word. That's the evidence the jury saw and I hope those of you who are down-rating me can set aside your bias and look at it too.

From there it spirals badly with the other men attacking Kyle as he tries to run to the police. The video evidence indicates that each of the shootings were also justified self-defense. If a malicious angry man screams that he's going to kill me, I'd take him at his word. I wouldn't ever want to take a life but I would have done so in each of those instances that young teenager found himself in. Yes, an adult in his life should have told Kyle he shouldn't be there, he was too young to handle dangerous adult angry men. But Kyle's attorneys were able to show the jury who he was and who actually started this deadly conflict. Not surprisingly, the four men who attacked him all had violent criminal backgrounds.

No, Jondee, before you put words in my mouth again, I do not believe any of these men "had it coming," as you said. I specifically said the opposite. None of them "deserved" to be shot, only that their criminal histories and violent past help us make sense of what happened that night. Acknowledging what happened and why helps us to avoid this kind of tragedy in the future.

Given all this evidence, I think the defense attorneys knew their client is a good kid who was there with the intention to help. Even after multiple physical attacks on him, Kyle had the restraint to lower his rifle when the final attacker, Gaige Grosskreutz, stopped chasing him and put his empty hands in the air. Turns out Kyle's not a racist murderer after all! Unfortunately, Grosskreutz decided to attack him after all, drawing his loaded, unregistered Glock from where it was illegally hidden under his shirt and rushed Kyle as he lay on the ground, pointing the gun at his head. But don't take my word for it. Check out Grosskreutz own testimony when the excellent defense attorney got him to contradict what he told the police (he claimed he hadn't chased Kyle and he didn't have a gun in his hand) simply by showing him the picture of him with his Glock pointed at Kyle's head. Clear self-defense again. I think the defense knew the evidence was sound and that showing who this kid is was what they needed to get it that other bad actors caused the problem, not the naive teenager just trying to protect his community.

All of this information is available if you listen to the testimony and look at the video evidence, especially material I've referred to. But you'll have to read my comments quickly because some folks here are very invested in others not being exposed to the facts of this case. I think the defense did an excellent job, and putting Kyle on the stand clinched it.

I get it that some folks are really angry at him, so much so that my understanding and compassion towards Kyle causes down-rating of my comments. I shouldn't have to join that anger bubble in order to comment here. Can't people here can be firm in their shared opinion without down-rating others in in an attempt to silence and to ensure no one else gets exposed to a slightly different perspective? If it's conformity you want, there are hundreds of thousands of F-Kyle posts on other blogs to enjoy. So how about we all agree that we want to make the world a better place without you silencing me for expressing my beliefs on Kyle's intentions, his actions and what happened that night. Bear in mind that suppressing my voice here simply widens the divide. When you do that, you risk tipping uninformed angry people over the edge, causing even more violence toward innocent bystanders. If you don't agree with me, please just say so, don't try to get my comments hidden. Other readers might want to hear what I have to say. Not just because this might be why the attorneys put Kyle on the stand, but because if we want to prevent future tragedies, blaming Kyle and labeling him a racist murderer doesn't help. You can't fix that problem because it's not true. But if you realize the media portrayal is opposite of what Kyle's defense attorneys and the jury believed, then we can work together to get the actual violent actors out of our protests.


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At least you use paragraphs. (1.00 / 1) (#25)
by leap on Tue Nov 23, 2021 at 02:35:00 PM EST
---

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Tucker? (3.67 / 3) (#6)
by Chuck0 on Mon Nov 22, 2021 at 11:39:52 AM EST
Is that you?

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I don't know who Tucker is (none / 0) (#13)
by Juanita Moreno on Tue Nov 23, 2021 at 01:11:44 AM EST
but if you have a beef with him, please leave me out of it. Yesterday someone called me a "pal" of another commenter. I don't know any other person at this site.

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Do (5.00 / 1) (#14)
by FlJoe on Tue Nov 23, 2021 at 04:48:48 AM EST
your research. You rail(correctly IMO) about
a very dangerous trend of deliberate "divide and conquer" strategies that are destroying our country.
Yet you are ignorant of one of the main purveyors of such strategies.

You go on and on about how "poor" Kyle was manipulated (again true to a point) but you seem to point your finger at everyone else besides the true manipulators.

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Clearly right-wing talking heads (3.00 / 2) (#21)
by Juanita Moreno on Tue Nov 23, 2021 at 11:52:23 AM EST
are making big bucks by stirring up divisions just like the corporate news on our side does. But we've known of their deceit for decades. It breaks my heart to realize that now sociopaths on both sides are willing to trick people into fighting each other so more profits are generated from this perpetual strife.

I hope many who see this re-assess and reject both Left and Right wing corporate-owned media distortions and lies. What if people continue to forward and promote these dishonest, discredited memes about Kyle and they result in attacks on the jury members or Kyle's family, the attorneys, court staff or for that matter, white people in general. Or brown people who don't agree with violent protests. I've seen white people call other white people racist for putting out fires at protests! That's out of control misplaced and misguided anger. Given the hostility out there, I think our future is grim.

This case wasn't just about Kyle, it was a referendum on self-defense, on whether it's OK to use violence against one group to protest violence against another and whether people who look a certain way are inherently bad or "the enemy" because of the group they were born into.

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OK (5.00 / 1) (#24)
by FlJoe on Tue Nov 23, 2021 at 12:55:09 PM EST
sociopaths on both sides
I will name a few on one side off the top of my head on one side, Donald tRump, Tucker Carlson, Paul Gosar, I could go on.

Name a few on the other side that comes close to those or STFU.

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OK, you're right (none / 0) (#29)
by Juanita Moreno on Tue Nov 23, 2021 at 05:00:57 PM EST
There's no comparison. Unless you step outside the news. Can't think of a Democratic leader as horrific and despicable as Trump but if you ignore that Trump is dumb as a bag of bricks, maybe Henry Kissinger might be high up there on the list of evil sociopaths for his role in Nixon's murderous attack on innocent people in Cambodia.

But as far as talking heads go, I guess years of enjoyment watching Rachael Maddow and the like taking down unethical Republicans makes it hard for me to pick an individual who's anywhere near as dishonest as Fox news talking heads. I can think of some examples dishonest memes a few of our contemporary Dem leaders have created, especially regarding false claims of racism, but maybe I should wait to see if my other comments get "disappeared" by low ratings.

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You are very new here, so fwiw (5.00 / 2) (#36)
by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Nov 23, 2021 at 07:13:03 PM EST
low ratings do not "disappear" comments.

The very few comments that do disappear (like a half-dozen or less each year) are deleted by Jeralyn, and she always leaves an explanation.

At the top of the comments on each topic/thread there are multiple options/settings for viewing comments (nested, ignore ratings, oldest first, etc.), experiment with them and find the one you like.

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It's not new (none / 0) (#37)
by CaptHowdy on Tue Nov 23, 2021 at 07:18:15 PM EST
62) Since Zimmerman was inappropriately [none / 0] Replies: 1

posted by Juanita Moreno on 04/30/2013 03:56:36 PM EST

attached to Tuesday Open Thread



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Excellent sleuthing (none / 0) (#41)
by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Nov 24, 2021 at 01:19:20 AM EST
Leroy Brown

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Well that guy continued to be a jerk (none / 0) (#46)
by Juanita Moreno on Wed Nov 24, 2021 at 10:35:59 AM EST
In December 2015, Zimmerman tweeted two photos of a topless woman he claimed was his ex-girlfriend...

Still, I'm always surprised that anyone frequenting a legal site would want the courts to be inappropriately used to convict someone for the parts of his actions they didn't like even though the actual incident was self-defense. He should have minded his own business, and Martin should have stayed at his father's house once he arrived there safely. Sadly, Z wasn't charged with harassment, he was charged with murder.

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The self-defense (1.00 / 1) (#48)
by jondee on Wed Nov 24, 2021 at 10:59:41 AM EST
was when the armed-and-threatening jag-off got slammed to the pavement.

Losing the fight doesn't magically make you a non-instigator, counselor.

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Under the traditional American definition (none / 0) (#49)
by Peter G on Wed Nov 24, 2021 at 12:06:20 PM EST
of self-defense, which prevailed for two hundred years until various forces of reaction (in my view) got to work on those laws through state legislatures in the 1990s and since, was that the privilege of self-defense was lost to anyone who was an unjustified first aggressor. "Unjustified" means not having a subjectively genuine and objectively reasonable fear of being the victim of (unjustified) deadly force, or disregarding an available avenue of safe retreat. I always thought that rule struck a reasonable moral balance that discouraged violence. I honestly don't see how any version of that rule (and especially not its watered-down contemporary versions) can work in a society that allows widespread civilian carrying of firearms, either open or concealed.

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Self-Defense (none / 0) (#57)
by ladybug on Wed Nov 24, 2021 at 03:02:37 PM EST
Your comment is one of the more measured ones in this thread, and so I am curious if you agree that Rittenhouse had a valid self-defense claim. Also Zimmerman. People may have strong feelings about these cases, but the jury did find self-defense beyond a reasonable doubt based on the evidence. Zimmerman and Rittenhouse were being attacked.  Isn't the system working?

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I have no reason to question the jury verdict (4.00 / 3) (#62)
by Peter G on Wed Nov 24, 2021 at 03:35:09 PM EST
The jurors heard all the evidence over days of trial. I did not. Therefore I have no opinion of my own about the KR verdict. But BCinGA is right, the jury did not "find self defense beyond a reasonable doubt." The verdict means that the jury was left with reasonable doubt that KR may have acted in self-defense, as defined under the very pro-accused Wisconsin statute. That's all it means, which required an acquittal. All of which has nothing to do with Zimmerman. I see no connection and little similarity between the two cases.

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The system is working (none / 0) (#63)
by ladybug on Wed Nov 24, 2021 at 03:57:20 PM EST
If I understood you right, I was responding to your comment about how the self-defense rules have changed, and how much more difficult it is to  determine self-defense now that so many people armed, even at mostly peaceful protests (although of course cars and skateboards and fists can inflict much damage too). The similarity for  Rittenhouse and Zimmerman was that they used guns to stop the attacks. Of course, there were differences too and Rittenhouse had three different circumstances with three different attackers. But the system worked. I guess that was my question and you have answered it.

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Unfortunately (5.00 / 3) (#67)
by FlJoe on Wed Nov 24, 2021 at 04:25:31 PM EST
the system working, often does not equate to justice served and it always seems to "work" better for certain types of people.


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the jury did find self-defense beyond a reasonable (none / 0) (#58)
by BGinCA on Wed Nov 24, 2021 at 03:14:41 PM EST
I think you have this backwards. The jury found that the prosecution  did not prove beyond a reasonable doubt that KR was not exercising his right of self defense. If the burden of proof were on KR there may have been a different outcome.

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Thank you! (none / 0) (#61)
by ladybug on Wed Nov 24, 2021 at 03:27:09 PM EST
Yes, I had that wrong. Obviously I am not a lawyer and appreciate all the lawyers' takes on this case!

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So (none / 0) (#65)
by FlJoe on Wed Nov 24, 2021 at 04:15:40 PM EST
in essence the prosecution would have to "prove a negative" to win a conviction.

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That's interesting (none / 0) (#66)
by ladybug on Wed Nov 24, 2021 at 04:24:51 PM EST
And yet I believe that self-defense is called an affirmative defense?

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There are affirmative defenses, and then (none / 0) (#77)
by Peter G on Wed Nov 24, 2021 at 06:18:16 PM EST
there are affirmative defenses. Self-defense appears to be an "affirmative defense" in Wisconsin only in the sense that the prosecution need not disprove it until and unless the defense adduces at least "some" evidence to put the issue in contention. This is called "the burden of going forward." The burden of proof then shifts back to the prosecutor to disprove self-defense beyond a reasonable doubt. A full-scale, old-fashioned affirmative defense (prior to the "reformed" version introduced in the 1960s) would require the defendant to prove all the requirements of a valid self-defense claim by a preponderance of the evidence. The US Supreme Court ruled in 1987 that that formula is not unconstitutional. So it is up to each state to decide how to formulate the terms of the defense in their own law.

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On (3.67 / 3) (#23)
by FlJoe on Tue Nov 23, 2021 at 12:25:48 PM EST
to bothsiderism now I see. I know not what this "our side corporate media" you refer to is. The fact that you construct such a strawman shows me that you are not in the same ballbark of my team.

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Really? Really? (1.00 / 1) (#26)
by Chuck0 on Tue Nov 23, 2021 at 03:57:08 PM EST
you blather about the "corporate" media and you don't know who Tucker Carlson is?

You have zero, absolutely zero, credibility.


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Try to be more specific in your sarcasm next time (none / 0) (#30)
by Juanita Moreno on Tue Nov 23, 2021 at 05:02:56 PM EST
His last name would have helped.

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Try (1.00 / 1) (#31)
by FlJoe on Tue Nov 23, 2021 at 05:20:27 PM EST
improving the camouflage  on your RW talking points if you want to upgrade your troll game.

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I'm not your enemy (5.00 / 1) (#40)
by Juanita Moreno on Tue Nov 23, 2021 at 11:35:22 PM EST
I might have posted too much, but I'm feeling driven by the fierce urgency of now.

The more that good people promote false memes, the more we're destroying our chance to have a functional society. MSNBC continues to stir the pot today claiming that the right to self-defense now outweighs our 1st Amendment rights. (I won't link to their divisive nonsense.) Well if you're one of the many people who still believe the media's false characterization that Kyle Rittenhouse murdered peaceful protesters, I guess that would make sense to you. But if you understand how the media fooled people in this case, you'll realize that Kyle's self-defense case helps us utilize our 1st Amendment rights via non-violent protests. Thanks to him and others, maybe our side will demand the police do their jobs and arrest these dangerous rioters.

Dysfunctional men like Rosenbaum wreck things by putting us all at risk. In spite of media memes to the contrary, Rosenbaum was the violent agitator, not the armed men who showed up to fill the void left by the police. When we do our jobs as Americans and seek the truth, we reject media manipulation and resist this slide into fascism we've been spiraling into for a few decades.

I hope folks who haven't seen the evidence take my advice and see for themselves because the reality is that people like Kyle are on our side. We're the just and righteous side that demands an end to racism and white privilege. The side that declares that violent rioters are NOT helping our cause. We're the people regardless of political affiliation who are willing to come together on shared values and fight the good fight.

If you feel a stab of pleasure seeing a Fu@k Kyle T-shirt, consider that years of media encouragement of hatred might be something you want to resist, if only for your own mental health. Every social media post that degrades our values can provide you a rush of "anger cortisol" which is addictive. Fox news figured this out decades ago but now the Left has fallen prey to the same strategies. Hate on Kyle one day and the next day you can be sucked more easily into MSNBC's dishonesty. Fight it folks. Open your hearts and start using your minds again. If you're already doing that, then please help others in your circles to wake up and fight the group-think that has taken over our society.

Kyle's life will never be the same, and not just because millions of misinformed people now hate him. As a veteran, I can tell you that doing what's right is not easy. I don't think he'll ever get over taking two lives in spite of being forced to fight for his life by a maniac rioter who put every peaceful protester there at risk. We do not have to accept violence at BLM protests. It's not racist to put out the fires. And for gods sake white people, stop hating on yourselves. You can end white privilege without operating from a white=bad mentality and racializing everything that happens.

The more we indulge in the false divisions created by those who profit from our fighting each other, the more we'll see this kind of crazy from Democrats so manipulated that they've lost their hearts as well as their minds.


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FK (1.00 / 1) (#42)
by FlJoe on Wed Nov 24, 2021 at 04:00:06 AM EST
you, I get to decide who my enemies are not you. Anybody to straps up and decides to take the law into their own hands is my enemy, full stop. Anyone who thinks these people should be coddled is my enemy full stop. Anyone who refuses to point to the real enablers of violence and hatred in the political and media is my enemy, full stop.

Once more with feeling FK YOU!

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Those violent men (3.00 / 2) (#8)
by jondee on Mon Nov 22, 2021 at 12:29:33 PM EST
"forced" him to protect his life, because he was on the scene with a deadly, violent weapon and all the non-mind readers had no way of knowing what his intentions were.

You keep leaving that part out, which is surprising, given the fact that you keep talking as if you were there to personally witness every second of what transpired.

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Those armed men walked around all night with no (3.00 / 2) (#15)
by Juanita Moreno on Tue Nov 23, 2021 at 09:30:35 AM EST
problems until a crazy man decided to target and attack the weakest and most inexperienced of them, a teenager. Protecting your community is a reasonable thing to do. Calling someone the N-word, telling him you're going to kill him, then chasing him down and trying to take his weapon is not reasonable.

The videos made that night show that none of the armed men trying to protect their community did anything wrong.

Jondee, you could ignore all of the testimony and simply watch the videos of Rosenbaum's aggressive hostility and you might understand where the problem originated.

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Look at the evidence (5.00 / 1) (#60)
by ladybug on Wed Nov 24, 2021 at 03:24:02 PM EST
The parts of your comments that stick out most for me is your argument to look at all the evidence that points to self-defense. I don't see where all the vitriol toward you is coming from other than your posts are so long! I remember all the excellent discussions here during the Zimmermnan trial and came back hoping for more on this trial, but most of these comments seem to be ad hominem. Kind of supports some of what you're saying (although there is certainly a lot there to pick and choose from).

Parent
Yet somehow, no one else (1.00 / 1) (#80)
by Towanda on Wed Nov 24, 2021 at 06:43:45 PM EST
shot even one person, while Rittenhouse shot three.

Here in Isconsin, most of us see hat he is a thug.

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An inexperienced teenager with a semi-automatic (none / 0) (#82)
by oculus on Wed Nov 24, 2021 at 09:06:51 PM EST
Slung across his body.

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Client versus cause (none / 0) (#83)
by ladybug on Wed Nov 24, 2021 at 10:14:07 PM EST
It seems that most of the commenters here see Rittenhouse as a cause rather than as a defendant in a self-defense case. These are different conversations.

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I (5.00 / 1) (#85)
by FlJoe on Thu Nov 25, 2021 at 04:58:49 AM EST
confess to that, the cause being absolutely against vigilante justice.

I have no doubt that Rittenhouse was in fear for his life, IMO he is a coward, as many of these gun humpers are.

The problem as I see it is that it all seems to boil down to the equation, coward + gun = license to kill.

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Often more effect than cause (5.00 / 1) (#87)
by CaptHowdy on Thu Nov 25, 2021 at 07:25:34 AM EST
I think most of the vigilante cowboys carry guns because they are cowards.  Afraid of everyone and everything.

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Also (5.00 / 1) (#89)
by CaptHowdy on Thu Nov 25, 2021 at 07:40:29 AM EST
I know from my own family members they are often picked on and bullied as children so they grow up wanting to be a cop.  If they can't do that, three in my family did, it's easy to see why the guns and the membership in a group is so attractive to them.

Seriously check out a group pic of these guys.  Not usually many captains of sports or prom kings in sight.

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Instant (5.00 / 1) (#90)
by FlJoe on Thu Nov 25, 2021 at 08:01:34 AM EST
courage and manhood enhancer.

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A generality. (none / 0) (#84)
by oculus on Wed Nov 24, 2021 at 10:54:02 PM EST
Projection (5.00 / 1) (#88)
by CaptHowdy on Thu Nov 25, 2021 at 07:28:04 AM EST

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