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Sen. Al Franken Gets A Groping Allegation of His Own | 185 comments (185 topical)

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Actually Tweeden is offensive to me. I googled her (3.67 / 3) (#121)
by JanaM on Sun Nov 19, 2017 at 10:37:50 PM EST
images and thought well how imaginative to combine her love for soft porn with her idea of patriotism. Her military fatigues as thongs was particularly interesting.

And, of course, this is a politically motivated complaint. Why else would she have coordinated it with her right wing friends.

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Another complaint. How many does it take? (none / 0) (#124)
by Michael Masinter on Mon Nov 20, 2017 at 09:28:49 AM EST
Another woman has complained that Franken grabbed her by her butt during a photo in 2010, when he as already in the Senate. She posted a FB note on the day of the incident.  I suppose we'll need to investigate her politics too.

Let's be clear here.  If the standard were criminal misconduct, neither Al Franken nor Roy Moore committed a sexual assault.  But when did "no controlling legal authority" become the standard by which we judge the permissible boundaries of sexual conduct by public officials.

As I noted in another post, graveyards are full of indispensable men and women.  Based on my experience litigating sexual harassment cases, the probability that this new complaint is the last one that will emerge is approximately zero.  

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I cannot agree that none of the Moore (5.00 / 2) (#129)
by Peter G on Mon Nov 20, 2017 at 12:26:57 PM EST
allegations rises to the level of criminal conduct. The accusation by the 16-year-old (am I remembering that right?) who says he drove her to a dark parking lot, instead of home, and then locked the car door and tried to get under her clothing sounds like it could establish probable cause, at least, for charges of kidnapping and attempted rape (at least in most American jurisdictions, not knowing anything about Alabama criminal statutes in effect at that time or surrounding case law). That's pretty damn criminal. Not so about anything said about Sen. Franken (that I've seen so far).

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really? (none / 0) (#159)
by linea on Tue Nov 21, 2017 at 07:35:17 PM EST
by Peter G
That's pretty damn criminal. Not so about anything said about Sen. Franken (that I've seen so far).

it's infuriating that you are at a loss to figure out any possible criminal law violations here.

then he came at me, put his hand on the back of my head, mashed his lips against mine and aggressively stuck his tongue in my mouth. I immediately pushed him away with both of my hands against his chest

clearly, if a man grabbed Peter G by the back of the head and spit in his mouth - that would be assault. but a man grabbing a woman by the back of the head and shoving his tongue in her mouth - you find yourself at a loss to figure out what possible crime he commited?

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If Peter was rehearsing (5.00 / 2) (#160)
by CaptHowdy on Tue Nov 21, 2017 at 07:40:00 PM EST
A skit where he kissed Al it would not be assault

It might be a violation.  But I doubt it would be assault.

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very poor argument (1.00 / 1) (#163)
by linea on Tue Nov 21, 2017 at 08:24:43 PM EST
If Peter was rehearsing
by CaptHowdy
A skit where he kissed Al it would not be assault
It might be a violation.  But I doubt it would be assault.

i actually need to explain to you that leeann tweeden wasn't a willing participant?

to me, it seems pretty pervy and disgusting how this guy is always coming up with funny skits where he forces himself on women or grabs their breasts.

[in my opinion]

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"Always coming up with?" (5.00 / 3) (#168)
by Anne on Tue Nov 21, 2017 at 09:18:39 PM EST
WTF, linea?  There was one skit that we know of.  Period.

One photograph at the state fair.  Period.

You do this a lot, linea, and it's tiresome.  You take one thing, and inflate it to "always" - why is that?

I am not, in case you were planning to accuse me of doing so, defending anything Franken did, either to Tweeden, or to the woman at the fair.  

And it's fine for you to discuss that, linea, but not to make this into something it isn't by stating things like, "this guy is always coming up with funny skits where he forces himself on women or grabs their breasts."

If you have to be dishonest in your arguments, that might be a pretty big clue that you either don't have the facts you need to make the argument you want, or you're just trying to stir things up.

Neither possibility reflects well on you, and it is undermining the ability to take you seriously at all, about anything.

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i do have the facts (1.00 / 1) (#169)
by linea on Tue Nov 21, 2017 at 09:43:29 PM EST
Always coming up with?
by Anne
WTF, linea?  There was one skit that we know of.  Period.

no. two pervy skits.
that we know of, so far.

[1] the funny skit he devised as an excuse to assault Leeann Tweeden.

[2] he grabs Arianna Huffington breasts and bum but no harm, no foul as it alludes to a funny skit he devised several years prior where the two had political arguments half-naked in bed.

Newly surfaced pics show Al Franken grabbing Arianna Huffington's breasts and butt

this guy is showing a pattern and i don't like it.

my opinion.

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Arianna Huffington begs to differ. (5.00 / 4) (#173)
by Anne on Tue Nov 21, 2017 at 10:13:05 PM EST
Arianna Huffington is denying that anything inappropriate occurred after The New York Post's Page Six on Monday published images that appear to show Sen. Al Franken (D-Minn.) groping her during a photoshoot in 2000.
"The notion that there was anything inappropriate in this photo shoot is truly absurd," the co-founder of the Huffington Post said in a statement to Page Six, which ran the story under the headline "Newly surfaced pics show Al Franken grabbing Arianna Huffington's breasts and butt."

[...]

Huffington said the photos were meant to recreate a TV sketch she did with Franken in 1996.

"Al and I did a comedic sketch for Bill Maher's `Politically Incorrect' called `Strange Bedfellows,' in which the whole point, as the name makes clear, was that we were doing political commentary from bed. This shoot was looking back at the sketch, and we were obviously hamming it up for comedic effect," Huffington wrote.

"I've been great friends with Al and his wife Franni for over 20 years and there has never been anything remotely inappropriate in our interactions," she continued.

Link

So, we're back to one skit.  

"Always" is dishonest.

And as for this so-called pattern you think you're seeing?  Well, 36 women who worked with him on that somewhat-famous skit show - Saturday Night Live - would like you to know that they have a different opinion:

Three dozen women who worked with Sen. Al Franken during his tenure on "Saturday Night Live" came out in defense of the Minnesota Democrat facing allegations of sexual misconduct.

In the letter, the women slammed Franken's behavior toward Leeann Tweeden -- who accused the lawmaker of forcibly kissing and groping her more than a decade ago -- as "stupid and foolish" but wrote that "not one of us ever experienced any inappropriate behavior" from the former SNL cast member.

"We feel compelled to stand up for Al Franken, whom we have all had the pleasure of working with over the years on Saturday Night Live (SNL). What Al did was stupid and foolish, and we think it was appropriate for him to apologize to Ms. Tweeden, and to the public," the women wrote. "In our experience, we know Al as a devoted and dedicated family man, a wonderful comedic performer, and an honorable public servant."

"That is why we are moved to quickly and directly affirm that after years of working with him, we would like to acknowledge that not one of us ever experienced any inappropriate behavior; and mention our sincere appreciation that he treated each of us with the utmost respect and regard," they added.

So, just stop, would you?

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Page six (none / 0) (#170)
by CaptHowdy on Tue Nov 21, 2017 at 09:59:54 PM EST
Really

Did you look at that picture?  Does she look violated to you?

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Huffington has said that the photo (5.00 / 1) (#172)
by caseyOR on Tue Nov 21, 2017 at 10:07:47 PM EST
was completely consensual. She and Frankenstein's were recreating a skit they had done for Maher's "Politically Incorrect" show.

Huffington is a bit annoyed with people who jumped to the conclusion that she was anything but a willing participant.

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Maybe you should have checked (none / 0) (#171)
by CaptHowdy on Tue Nov 21, 2017 at 10:07:06 PM EST
With the "victim" before the snowflake routine

Arianna Huffington is denying that anything inappropriate occurred after The New York Post's Page Six on Monday published images that appear to show Sen. Al Franken (D-Minn.) groping her during a photoshoot in 2000.

"The notion that there was anything inappropriate in this photo shoot is truly absurd," the co-founder of the Huffington Post said in a statement to the news outlet, which ran the story under the headline "Newly surfaced pics show Al Franken grabbing Arianna Huffington's breasts and butt."



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Who cares if you "like it"? (none / 0) (#181)
by Yman on Wed Nov 22, 2017 at 09:25:06 PM EST
Arianna Huffington: Al Franken no more groped me than I strangled him

Huffington told the paper that the photos were for "comedic effect" and that they referenced a sketch called Strange Bedfellows Huffington used to perform with Franken, a former comedian, on Bill Maher's Politically Incorrect.

"I think I'm a better judge of how I felt in that satirical photo shoot with Al Franken than the recollections of an anonymous bystander," Huffington said in a tweet earlier Tuesday. "I thought the point of this moment was to believe women's accounts of their own experiences."

But don't let the facts bother you.

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If fact (none / 0) (#164)
by CaptHowdy on Tue Nov 21, 2017 at 08:30:49 PM EST
She was. It was a rehearsal. She knew he was going to kiss her.  She said so.

So.

And it was a USO show.  Have you ever seen one.
They are mostly for guys.

Try watching one of the ones Bob Hope used to do.

On second thought don't.  You might not survive.

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jesus christ (none / 0) (#167)
by linea on Tue Nov 21, 2017 at 09:16:45 PM EST
If fact
by CaptHowdy
She was. It was a rehearsal. She knew he was going to kiss her.

i suppose we should just be thankful he didn't decide the funny skit was raping her at knife point? because whatever he devises as a funny skit she is required to subject herself to?

SHE NEVER WANTED TO KISS HIM

she RECOILED from his attempt and he GRABBED HER BY THE BACK OF HER HEAD and forced his tongue in her mouth until she SHOVED him away by pushing on his chest with both hands.

jesus christ! is this so difficult to understand?

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Is (5.00 / 1) (#179)
by FlJoe on Wed Nov 22, 2017 at 04:31:00 PM EST
it so hard to understand that Tweeden was virtually repeating the script as written in 2003 .L:  
I've taken the liberty of writing a little audition piece
to show my range. [Handing Karri the script.] I play a prosecutor sent in by the Pentagon to shake
things up around the JAG office.

KARRI: You wrote this?

AL: Yeah. I'm a writer, comedian, dramatic actor. [Beat.] It's your
line.

KARRI: Oh. [Reading from script.] Lieutenant Hardgrove, what are you
doing here in JAG OPS?

AL: I told you, Harriet. Call me Lance.

KARRI: Lieutenant Hardgrove, this is JAG OPS. It's all business here.

AL: Is it? Then why are you wearing that negligee?

KARRI: [Off-script.] Al, my character would never wear a negligee to
the office!

AL: You would if you were madly in love with Lieutenant Lance Hardgrove.

KARRI: Al, I'm married in the show! I have two kids--

AL: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Keep reading.

KARRI: [Reading script.] Lance, I'm wearing this negligee because
I want tonight to be very special. I want to give myself to you completely. Now kiss me! [Al
grabs Karri and kisses her. Karri fights him off.]

KARRI: Now, wait a minute! You just wrote this so you could kiss me! If
I was gonna kiss anybody, it'd be a real soldier. Like one of these brave men...or women.


a>


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You (none / 0) (#176)
by FlJoe on Wed Nov 22, 2017 at 05:31:05 AM EST
do know that this skit was written an performed in 2003? the  whole joke was that Franken writes the line surreptitiously  into the script to "trick" the actress into inviting him to kiss them. Tweedens's recounting is basically s rewording of that skit, now she claims that she was totally unwilling, I call BS. These shows are chock full of groping and kissing, with photographic and video evidence showing Tweeden as an avid participant.

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There is no comparison whatever (5.00 / 3) (#174)
by Peter G on Tue Nov 21, 2017 at 10:33:43 PM EST
between an apparent kidnapping and attempted rape of a teenager, and something which could in theory be a simple assault, but which no prosecutor ever anywhere would prosecute, and likely no police officer ever anywhere would even take a report of.

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Sexual Assault (none / 0) (#177)
by Michael Masinter on Wed Nov 22, 2017 at 03:22:15 PM EST
Sexually motivated assaults are not sexual assaults as commonly defined unless the assault comes within the defined category of sexual assaults.  Although I'm no expert on Alabama law, it does not appear to make the conduct as described a sex crime.  Perhaps that conduct is a  non sex-based crime like simple assault or unlawful imprisonment, but though wrongful, I don't think it qualifies as a sexual assault in Alabama.

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Seriously (none / 0) (#178)
by CaptHowdy on Wed Nov 22, 2017 at 04:23:23 PM EST
Taking the clothes off a 14 yo then taking off your own, touching her breasts and privates through her underwear and guiding her hand to touch his erection through his tightly whiteies.

That's not a sex crime?

It would seem to be skating pretty darn close by any definition.  

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Yeahhhhhhh ... No (5.00 / 2) (#137)
by Yman on Mon Nov 20, 2017 at 03:11:27 PM EST
Let's be clear here.  If the standard were criminal misconduct, neither Al Franken nor Roy Moore committed a sexual assault
.  

The conduct of which Moore is accused clearly includes criminal acts.

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Let (5.00 / 1) (#154)
by FlJoe on Tue Nov 21, 2017 at 03:40:09 PM EST
me play devil's advocate here. I suppose we'll need to investigate her politics too.
I suppose we'll need to investigate her politics too.
Absolutely, Republicans have proven over and over again that they will lie, cheat and steal to gain and retain power There seems no bottom to the depths they will sink. they would weaponize their own grandmas to get their way. I personally will probably never totally trust a tRump voter again.

For the record I find this latest accusation more credible than Tweeden's (IMO a very low bar), if the family is telling the truth to CNN there appears to be plenty of contemporaneous corroboration.

Ok now on to the cross examination of the latest accuser  

Then, as her husband held up her phone and got ready to snap a photo of the two of them, Franken "pulled me in really close, like awkward close, and as my husband took the picture, he put his hand full-fledged on my rear," Menz said. "It was wrapped tightly around my butt cheek."
"It wasn't around my waist. It wasn't around my hip or side. It was definitely on my butt," she said, recalling that the brazen act lasted three or four seconds. "I was like, oh my God, what's happening."
I'm no expert on facial expressions but I am hard pressed to find a hint of any discomfort in hers at this "awkward" instant. I guess we should presume that the actual butt grab happened after the instant of the snapshot, are we to believe that Franken maintained his grip in some kind of frozen tableau with Mentz and her husband for 3-4 seconds(which is quite a long time when it comes to physical reactions). I will give her some benefit of the doubt because people have a terrible sense of time especially when under stress.
This also baffles me
Menz posted the photo with Franken on Facebook at the time, on August 27, 2010. Her sister, Cari Thunker, commented under the photo: "Sorry, but you two aren't Bibles (sic) width apart" -- a reference, Thunker explained to CNN, to how physically close Menz and Franken were in the photo.

Menz responded to her sister on Facebook: "Dude -- Al Franken TOTALLY molested me! Creeper!" (The exchange is visible to Menz's Facebook friends.)

 I'm not sure why anyone would post a picture of yourself with someone who had just groped you and only calling out the creepiness after your sister commented on it.

One final point, this hardly fits the profile of the sexual predator we have come to fear and loath, public groping of random strangers is definitely not the modus operandi of the rich, famous and powerful. CNN called this a brazen act, I would say so, publicly and unambiguously groping a stranger, in public, within a few feet of her husband pointing a camera at you.  I would call that the height of chutzpah...how long has this been going on?   How has he avoided getting b-slapped in public, possibly on camera? All for a few seconds of cheap thrills with a woman who he would never see again, something does not compute.

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Yep. She was asking for it. (none / 0) (#126)
by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Nov 20, 2017 at 11:39:52 AM EST


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She's not averse to displaying her wares (none / 0) (#127)
by jondee on Mon Nov 20, 2017 at 11:59:36 AM EST
in pursuit of a serious, dignified career in journalism slash pole dancing that all young American girls can admire and aspire to..

None of that excuses Franken acting like a drunken fratboy waving a dollar bill, but if we're going to look at the big picture, lets include every element of it.

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Shorter version: she was asking for it. (5.00 / 1) (#128)
by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Nov 20, 2017 at 12:26:11 PM EST


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I may be wrong but I don't believe Jondee is (none / 0) (#135)
by vml68 on Mon Nov 20, 2017 at 02:37:34 PM EST
saying that "she was asking for it".
I think what he is saying is that when you have some one who worked at Hooters and posed in Playboy and is shown grabbing the a$$ of the guitar player on the tour, one might assume that that person would not be so easily offended about what looks like a tasteless, juvenile prank, as opposed to, a nun.

In the real world, most of us have different boundaries for the people we deal with. There are jokes we share with our partners or friends that we would probably never share with parents, coworkers, etc. I can see how Franken would assume that she would be okay/find amusing the b00b grabbing photo. She is wearing what looks like a kevlar vest in the piture, so I am not sure how he actually grabbed her brea$ts, like some people have speculated.
The forced kissing she says happened is a whole different ballgame.

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So "shorter" is a synonym ... (none / 0) (#136)
by Yman on Mon Nov 20, 2017 at 03:09:21 PM EST
... for strawman?

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No worker is more susceptible... (none / 0) (#130)
by kdog on Mon Nov 20, 2017 at 01:02:33 PM EST
to sexual harassment or assault than a sex worker...and some talking heads on tv news could certainly be compared more closely to cam girls/boys than journalists;)

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Sen. Al Franken Gets A Groping Allegation of His Own | 185 comments (185 topical)

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