Showing posts with label Hall of Fame. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Hall of Fame. Show all posts

Friday, July 24, 2015

The New York Times' Harvey Araton sez Barry Bonds should be in the Hall of Fame. I agree.

Like many baseball fans, I have had a number of thoughts and emotions over the years on what MLB should do/should have done about performance enhancing drugs. It is bizarre to me the way this has all shaken out. Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens, who are HOFers even if you cut out their steroid years, are left out of the Hall. Meanwhile, Joe Torre, Tony LaRussa, and Bobby Cox, who won championships based on PED users, are in the Hall.

Oh, and Matt Williams is an MLB manager, Mark McGwire is a trusted hitting coach, and Nelson Cruz and Ryan Braun make it to the All-Star Game, and Jason Giambi was a beloved elder statesman of the game. Andy Pettitte is getting a monument plaque in Monument Park and a retired number. All admitted PED users. There is little or no consistency.

Not to mention that the players who use PEDs assume all the risks and the punishments, while the ownership that profited and still profits off their use just gets to cash the checks.

Anyhow, the New York Times' Harvey Araton has a terrific column that touches on this issue. Now that the feds have finally dropped their last remaining charge against Barry Bonds, after the obstruction of justice count was overturned on appeal, Araton argues that Bonds deserves to be in the Hall.

The whole thing is worth a read, but here are some of the most relevant points (emphasis added):

It has long been argued that Bonds had pretty much earned a spot in the Hall as Skinny Barry, with a decade’s worth of greatness before the 1998 preponderance of steroid benefits produced by McGwire and Sammy Sosa seemingly, and rather infamously went to Bonds’s head. What came after was surely a distortion of his previously immaculate stats. But in the context of continued revelations about baseball’s culture — foremost among them the Mitchell Report, which fingered Roger Clemens and shattered all notions of steroids as primarily a slugger’s scourge — the achievements of the bloated Bonds can no longer be permanently and completely discredited, viewed in a vacuum.
And this:
Baseball’s original sin wasn’t that it had — and certainly still has — athletes surreptitiously seeking an edge. It was management’s willful neglect of the problem for the sake of profits along with an obstructionist union wrongfully working to shield the guilty at the expense of the innocent.
As I always say, do you think Brian Cashman didn't know that A-Rod was juicing before they re-signed him? Heck, he could have known before trading for him in the first place!

Speaking of Rodriguez, Araton cites him as a positive example of somebody who has been accepted again into the game:

For many, it would no doubt be painful to hear an induction speech from Bonds, Clemens and the like. But wasn’t the notion of A-Rod again circling the bases after all that went down equally distasteful just months ago? Now what you hear is that he’s a great teammate, who served his time, paid his dues. So, in many ways, has Bonds, albeit with a smirk or a sneer. But how he has acted is not the point in the grand scheme. He deserves to be in the Hall, and baseball deserves to have him there, to deal more realistically, or honestly, with the industry’s original sin.

Ultimately, to me, it comes down to a number of things when it comes to putting PED users in the Hall:


  • Bonds et al had to compete against pitchers who were juicing (and we will probably never know the full extent of that!) And Clemens had to compete against hitters who were juicing. And they were still superstars.
  • PEDs themselves don't make you a great player, or Jeremy Giambi and Randy Velarde would have been big names.
  • Bonds, Clemens, Rodriguez, Manny Ramirez, etc. were the best players in the game in their era. How can you represent their generation in the Hall if they have been left out? 
  • Jose Canseco has said there is at least one PED user already in the Hall. When that ever comes out, what will be the justification for keeping the rest out?
  • What about players (cough, David Ortiz) who get a pass for PED use? Should they go in because writers like them, and they were never punished for such use?
It is a complicated subject, to be sure. But it seems to me that Bonds (and Clemens) need to be in the Hall of Fame. It's time for some consistency on this issue. If Torre, Cox, and LaRussa can be in, then so can Bonds and Clemens.

One other note on Bonds: for a guy who is supposed to be such a jerk, Greg Anderson, his trainer and childhood friend, literally went to jail -- twice! -- so as not to testify against him. Think about that for a second. I don't care how much money one could be given for doing so (some have suspected Bonds paid him off). Nothing is worth sacrificing your freedom that way. It says something about Bonds that Anderson did so for him.

Tuesday, December 10, 2013

Bill Madden shows the hypocrisy of MLB when it comes to steroids and the Hall of Fame

New York Daily News columnist Bill Madden is really down on steroids. After all, he called A-Rod the "Whitey Bulger of baseball" and has said when it comes to his MLB Hall of Fame vote that "I will never vote for any player known to have used steroids."

Yet it seems like his outrage on PEDs is very selective. After all, he recently exhorted the Mets -- twice -- to sign known PED users, cynically writing that "there is one other added advantage in signing Biogenesis clients" Nelson Cruz and Jhonny Peralta" -- "Both of them have demonstrated they know how to beat a drug test."

And this Sunday, Madden wrote that the Mets ought to sign 40-year-old Bartolo Colon, another Biogenesis client who tested positive for PEDs in 2012. Oh, and Madden thinks they ought to give the obese pitcher a two-year deal! Yet Madden never noted that 1) Colon is a known PED user, 2) Given how well Colon has pitched at his age and weight, he is very likely still using, 3) If he were to get suspended again for PEDs, he would face a 150-game suspension, which could cripple the Mets, and 4) Even if he weren't suspended, the only way somebody over 40 is going to be pitching the way he had is if he's using steroids. Not to mention that there was none of Madden's usual outrage over PED use. Guess he saves that for A-Rod and Barry Bonds.

Then Monday, after managers Joe Torre, Tony LaRussa, and Bobby Cox were all elected by MLB's Veterans' Committee to the Hall of Fame, Madden praised their "integrity and character" and claimed that Marvin Miller was not elected to the hall in this election because of his opposition to PED testing. Madden writes:

You want to know why Miller, who missed by only one vote in the last Expansion Era election three years ago, didn’t come close this time? You probably need to look no further than his repeated statements prior to his death in November 2012, decrying the players union’s agreeing to drug testing.

Almost to a man, the Hall of Fame players have condemned the alleged steroids cheats — Barry Bonds, Sammy Sosa, Roger Clemens et al, who have obliterated their records or passed many of them on the all-time lists — and Miller’s adamant stance against taking measures to clean up the game has diminished him despite all his accomplishments on their behalf.
Let's review. Madden doesn't even note that Torre, LaRussa and Cox were the top three managers of the Steroid Era, all of whom immensely benefited from PED users on their team. Lest we forget that Roger Clemens will not be elected to the Hall of Fame anytime soon because of PED use, but Joe Torre, who he played under for two of Torre's four rings, gets elected unanimously. (Torre also had nine of his 2000 WS Champion Yankees named in the Mitchell Report.)

Not to mention that Tony LaRussa was manager of the Oakland A's when Jose Canseco and Mark McGwire helped get the whole steroid era going in the first place, or that LaRussa was McGwire's manager in 1998 when he beat Roger Maris' home run record. And that Bobby Cox managed, among others, David Justice and John Rocker, PED users.

I think its a real disconnect with baseball -- and with Madden. Why are PED users kept out of the Hall of Fame when the managers who benefited from their PED use elected unanimously on the first try? Why does Madden claim (wrongly, I believe) that Miller was excluded due to his stance on this issue and not even note that the managers he praises benefited from players' steroid usage?

I contend that the only way to get PEDs out of sports is for teams and managers to suffer the consequences, not just the individual players. Yet we're supposed to believe that three of the smartest managers in the game had no idea what their players were doing. Child, please.

Tuesday, June 23, 2009

Met memories at Hall of Fame game

I'll never forget the time I saw the great Bob Feller pitch. Though the legendary Cleveland pitcher retired in 1956, it seems like only a couple of days ago.

Actually, it was only a couple of days ago. As Squawker Lisa wrote, we attended the first Baseball Hall of Fame Classic on Sunday. The 90-year-old Feller started the game and, as Lisa noted, even threw inside to Bobby Grich.

When Feller was removed from the game before the end of the first inning, I suspected he had been called up by the Mets. We know how much Omar Minaya loves those veteran pitchers!

While Feller as of yet has not arrived in Flushing, three of the other Hall of Famers in the game had a direct connection to the 1969 Mets:
  • Ferguson Jenkins was the ace of the staff for the 1969 Cubs, who were beaten out by the Mets for the division title.
  • Phil Niekro was the ace of the staff for the 1969 Braves, who lost to the Mets in the NLCS.
  • Brooks Robinson was the star third baseman for the 1969 Orioles, who lost to the Mets in the World Series.
The other Hall of Famer in the game was Paul Molitor.

Oddly enough, the Mets had as many name players in the Hall of Fame Classic as the Yankees did. And the Met names spent more time on the Mets than the Yankee names did. While Jeff Kent and George Foster are best known for their exploits on other teams, they did spend several years in Queens.

The Yankees can claim Niekro, though he did not pitch in the Bronx until he was 45. Jim Kaat played part of two seasons in the Bronx but is probably better known there as an announcer. The other former Yankees in the game were Mike Pagliarulo and Kevin Maas.

It was great to see the Hall of Famers and other great players such as Lee Smith, but some of the participants were, shall we say, not quite as accomplished, such as Jon Warden and Fred Cambria, who each pitched only one season in the majors.

The last time I was in Cooperstown was in July 1994, only a month before the strike that canceled the World Series. And this latest visit came only a day before Don Fehr announced he was stepping down as head of the Players' Union. Maybe my next visit can coincide with the resignation of Bud Selig.

Lisa and I have now attended several "firsts" this year. Along with the first Hall of Fame Classic, we went to the first Met loss at Citi Field (if you count exhibition games), the first night game at the new Yankee Stadium, A-Rod's first game back after his surgery and steroid admission and (alas) the first Subway Series game at the new Yankee Stadium.

This Friday, we will be at the first Subway Series game at Citi Field. Maybe Omar will have Feller in the fold by then.

Monday, January 12, 2009

Rickey Henderson and Jim Rice make it into the Hall of Fame

Just a quick note about Rickey Henderson and Jim Rice, MLB's brand-new Hall of Fame picks. Henderson was a first-year pick, while Rice got chosen in his last year of eligibility. The writers did a great job with both choices.

For once, I was right - I did write last month that Rice would finally make it into the Hall of Fame this year. Not exactly the prediction of the year, but I'll take it!

I also wrote that Rickey would make it in the first time around, but being right on that is like predicting that Alex Rodriguez will make some headlines this year.

Jim Rice was a fierce competitor, and a big part of the Rivalry. My favorite Rice moment happened at 1985 in Yankee Stadium. Some knuckleheaded Yankee fan stole Rice's cap, and he went into the bleachers to look for the guy. Classic - the fan had it coming!

And Henderson, of all people, holds the Yankees' all-time steals record. He, Rice, and Yankee Joe Gordon, who was picked by the Veterans' Committee last month, will be inducted into the Hall of Fame this summer.

Good news for Squawker Jon - Mo Vaughn got six Hall of Fame votes!

What do you think about the Hall of Fame picks? Leave us a comment.

Wednesday, December 3, 2008

Rickey Henderson: Deal him in to the Hall

Squawker Lisa and reader Jonmouk71, card games or no, Rickey Henderson is a first-ballot Hall of Famer. And it's not his fault that Met fans' most recent memories of him are him somehow being hired as a coach in 2007.

And as for Gil Hodges vs. Allie Reynolds for the Veterans ballot, obviously I'm going with Gil, though I concede that his overall managing record wouldn't do it on its own, so it has to be more for his playing days and overall body of work.

As for Reynolds, I don't think two no-hitters in one year is a qualifying stat, though maybe I'm just bitter because the Mets have no no-hitters in 47 years. (Yes, reader Uncle Mike, it does matter to me! And thanks for not piling on when you mentioned Seaver, Gooden and Cone pitching no-hitters after leaving the Mets and left out Nolan Ryan.)

And Reynolds has six rings? So does Willie Randolph!

The guy I most think has been unjustly left out of the Hall is Jack Morris, who won 254 games and had dominant performances in two World Series - 1984, when he won two complete games with an ERA of 2, and 1991, when he won two games in three starts with an ERA of 1.17, including the classic Game 7, when he pitched a complete game, 10-inning shutout on three days rest, beating Atlanta and outdueling John Smoltz, 1-0. Morris was named World Series MVP. Complete games were more common then, but his achievements are still really impressive.

But as for the Veterans' ballot, it includes another former Mets manager who will need to rely more on other credentials to make the Hall. Lisa and Jonmouk71 and all you other Yankee fans out there - surely you haven't forgotten about Joe Torre!

Hot stove debates to fire up New York fans

I'm going to turn this morning's squawk over to reader Jonmouk71, who suggested these blog topics in a comment on another thread:
Hey guys, instead of the silly name of field debate, how about something to stir up Yankee and Met fans alike:

1. Rickey Henderson - a first ballot HOF? - stats say yes, but his presence in both Yankee and Met clubhouses were definitely a negative (he helped get Yogi fired in 1985)

I have to say Rickey may have been a first-class clown, but he's still a first-ballot Hall of Famer, which I'm guessing he will be this January (in an Oakland uniform, I'm assuming.) And he should be remembered for his speed and talent. For example, did you know that Henderson holds the Yankee all-time team stolen base record, at 326, even though he only played less than five years for the Bombers? That's amazing.

But yeah, New York fans think of some very negative things when it comes to Rickey. My biggest memory of Henderson as a Yank is when he showed up for the first day to spring training and announced, "I don't need no press, man." And I know Squawker Jon won't forget Henderson playing cards while the Mets were losing in the playoffs.

Another player on the Hall of Fame ballot this year is Jim Rice, in his last year of eligibility. This Yankee fan thinks he deserves to be in the Hall. But Rice's big mistake, in my view, was being surly to the press in his playing days. Who knows how much support that has cost him over the years. Despite all that, I do think this is the year Rice finally makes it in, though.

Other names on the ballot for the first time this year include David Cone and Mo Vaughn. Squawker Jon is clearing his calendar for Mo-Licious' HOF induction!

Another argument our reader Jonmouk71 suggested was this one:

2. The Vet Committee: Gil Hodges or Allie Reynolds? Hodges gets a lot of support for his Dodger career (2 rings) and managing the 1969 Mets - but he never won more than 83 games in any other years he managed. Reynolds has 6 rings and the wear and tear of starter-bullpen-starter-bullpen gave him only 182 victories in a short 13 year career. But he was a dominant pitcher in his time and two no-no's in 1951 make him worthy.

I would say Reynolds over Hodges, but I will let Squawker Jon argue this in more detail.

In other news, there are only two more days to enter our A&E Essential Games DVD giveaway. Click here to do so.

What say you? Leave us a comment!

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