John Wesley and Apostolic Succession

One of the "controversial" claims made by the Rev'd Dr Peterson at M11 was that only ordained clergy can/should consecrate the elements. This came up today in a conversation I had with a friend of mine who is a student at Neshota House Seminary. His argument goes something like this:

1) Wesley understood that the church, to be the church, must have the sacraments;
2) Wesley understood that to have the sacraments, the church must have ordained priests;
3) Wesley understood that to have priests, the church must have bishops in Apostolic Succession to ordain priests.
4) When the church would not send bishops, Wesley was faced with a dilemma: (a) don't have the sacraments; (b) allow lay-persons to consecrate the elements; (c) appoint Methodist "superintendents" to ordain clergy so their can be a priesthood to consecrate the elements.
5) Wesley chose (c) and engaged in theological/exegetical gymnastics in order to get around Apostolic Succession in order to provide a priesthood in America to celebrate the sacraments.

Follow?

6) The end result of Wesley's breaking of Apostolic Succession is the loss of a Methodist priesthood and ultimately a loss of a truly sacramental church.

Here is his final claim:

7) If Wesley would have been able to foresee the result of his circumventing of Apostolic Succession, he would not have done so.

His argument is quite interesting and could be discussed at a number of points (please feel free to do so). My questions regard his conclusion: Is #6 a fair critique? Did Wesley's move away from Apostolic Succession (in the Traditional Anglican/Catholic/Orthodox understanding) lead ultimately to the present state of sacraments in the Methodist churches? Do you think Wesley would have done things differently at this point if he had it to do over again? Why or why not?

Being Anglican in the Evangelical Church

I was asked by my DS what it was like being an evangelical at an Anglican seminary. My response: "A lot easier than being an Anglican serving an Evangelical Church."
We both chuckled.

More seriously though. We talk about liturgy around here quite a lot. The love of liturgy and sacraments is what gives us unity. But we often talk (at least I do) in the realm of idealism. What about the world of reality? I have been working to introduce some liturgy to my congregation. We have moved to weekly Eucharist. I wear an alb and stole. We do corporate written prayers and read the Psalms responsively. But it is starting to feel like I bit off more than my people can chew.

So my question is this: what might liturgical / sacramental worship realistically look like is a small, evangelical, holiness church? My only stipulations are these:

1) Four-fold shape
2) The Eucharistic liturgy remain largely in tact
3) The liturgy ought to be the same each week

What would such a service need to look like to capture the essence of liturgy and to be accepted by a "typical" Nazarene congregation?

Theology (and Practice) of Ordination

Thanks to everyone who offered wisdom and guidance regarding the question of “pulpit supply” in churches that practice weekly Word & Table. I have thought much about what each of you has said. It seems, however, that I have inadvertently raised a much bigger issue – one that is appropriate to be discussed on a Sacramental-Nazarene blog. That issue is, of course, our theology and practice of holy orders.

Filling the Pulpit

So I need a little advice. We are going to begin speeding up our transition to weekly Eucharist. I will be starting a sermon series entitled "The Ways We Worship" the last Sunday of August. I will be basing it off Lester Ruth's article "A Rose By Any Other Name" which attempts to categorize protestant worship. Among other things, he notes that people tend to experience God in one of three ways: music, preaching, communion. The first week I will introduce the idea, and then I will spend three weeks each with songs in scripture (Mary's Song, Zechariah's Song, Simeon's Song), sermons in scripture (Peter @ Pentecost, Stephen @ the Sanhedrin, Paul @ Areopagus), and The Lord's Supper in scripture (institution, means of grace, frequency). I will then conclude the series on Christ the King with a sermon titled "The Worship of God and the Mission of God" that will tie in each of the three ways we worship with the great commission. We will be celebrating Holy Communion weekly from All Saints through Epiphany... and hopefully beyond.

Anyway, one thing has been going through my mind lately is a practical question. What do I do when I am gone for a Sunday?

COULD YOUR CHURCH BE OUR HOME

Well I was afraid this could happen and it has, even though our small congregation has fought to keep things going we have not been able to do so. The economy and a aging congregation has left our small Nazarene church faced with dealing with the closing of our church in the next 60 days or so. Not a prospect any Pastor wants to have to deal with, even though I will probably be done at the church before that actually happens. So here we are wondering what to do next with two teenagers to boot. For us it has been a five year journey here with our small community of faith, it is a shame it has only been in the last couple of years that we have seen several new young couples attending.

But to get to the point of the matter and I'm very much aware of how the CotN works. But at the same time I was wondering, does anyone out there know of any good leads for a Pastor who has strong sacramental convictions, and is very much open to the ancient future form of worship, who is classically Wesleyan in theology. Be it either as Pastor or Associate Pastor in the Church of the Nazarene. Regardless please pray for me and my family during this time of transition in our lives. If you have any thoughts you can contact me through my profile here on the Sanctifying Worship blog.

Now for some food for thought, how hard do you think it is for a Nazarene Pastor with sacramental convictions to find a good match with a like minded congregation in the CotN?

Peace,

Steven

"MSD" (Multiple Service Disorder)

Since I know Brannon is busy (!!), I thought I would start a new conversation. Peace to you all in the name of Christ during this Holy Week.

A rapidly growing trend in contemporary churches--and yes, particularly in the Church of the Nazarene--is the eventuation of what I will call "msd": multiple service disorder. The church my wife and I just moved from recently built a second "campus" in addition to the main church building (located some 8 miles away in a much more secluded area, yet where houses will soon be surrounding the building on every side--a brilliant seeker-sensitive move if I've ever seen one). Once this move was finalized the two-service church then shifted to an option of three services: one in the main sanctuary and one in the gym of the old building, and another at the "north campus." After a trial run of this model, the decision was then made to make *four* services (an additional service being added to the north campus building), each one with its own "campus pastor," eventually leading to the requirement of, at times, at least three preaching pastors to make it to all of the services (even in the previous three service model, the pastor was being stretched thin).