The Yglesias Torture Question

Matthew Yglesias asks if conservatives understand torture. Judging by comments from my blog they haven't bothered to read the memos. I wrote the post "Why We Should Care About Torture." A commenter named James argued deprivation is not torture. A memo by Steven Bradbury of the Office of Legal Council argued sleep deprivation would not inflict pain. Bradbury cited Prof. James Horne's book "Why We Sleep: The Functions of Sleep in Humans and Other Mammals." The memo admits the paticipants of Horne's sleep experiments were "free to move about and engage in normal activities." Horne's experiments were being used as a defensive cover for torture. The memos admits "important differences" between Horne's study and CIA interrogations.

We understand from OMS, and from our review of the literature on the physiology of sleep, that even very extended sleep deprivation does not cause physical pain, let alone severe. physical pain." "The longest studies of sleep deprivation in humans, .. [involved) volunteers [who were deprived of sleep for g to 11 days" .. Surprisingly, tittle seemed to go wrong with the subjects physically. The main effects lay with sleepiness and impaired brain functioning, but even these were no great cause for concern." James Horne, "Why We Sleep: The Functions of Sleep in Humans and Other Mammals" 23-24 (1988) ("Why We Sleep") (footnote omitted).. We note that there are important differences between steep deprivation as an interrogation technique used by the CIA and the controlled experiments documented in the literature. The subjects of the experiments were free to move about and engage in normal activities and often led a "tranquil existence" with "plenty of time for relaxation," See iii. at 24,

Blogger Hizroy contacted Horne. The Professor remarks extended sleep deprivation during interrogation "possible trauma, even blood loss." Horne expresses doubt that sleep deprivation could produce useful information from detainees.

With additional stresses as in ‘coercive techniques’, the situation for the sleep deprived victim becomes deplorable, as the mind and brain under these circumstances trigger the body’s defences to create a physiological ‘alarm reaction’ whereby, for example, various stress coping hormones are mobilised and prepare the body for possible trauma, even blood loss. I emphasise that this alarm reaction is not present under ‘pure sleep loss’ as I have just described. Prolonged stress with sleep deprivation will lead to a physiological exhaustion of the body’s defence mechanisms, physical collapse, and with the potential for various ensuing illnesses. We don’t know at what point this latter phase would be reached with ‘coercive techniques’, but to claim that 180 hours is safe in these respects, is nonsense. Moreover, whereas physical pain may not be particularly apparent even at this stage, the mental pain would be all too evident, and arguably worse than physical pain.

Even if one was to be pragmatic and claim that this form of sleep deprivation produced ‘desired results’, I would doubt whether the state of mind would be able to produce credible information, unaffected by delusion, fantasy or suggestibility.

Conservatives are willfully ignorant about the true implications of torture. Conservatives spents years denying the United States tortures. Now they say torture produces good intelligences. Even Dick Cheney is having problems citing instances where torture produced valuable intelligence. The only argument conservatives have left is an "eye-for-an-eye" justice.