— RU.COMPRESS
From : Vadim Yoockin 2:5020/1042.50 21 Sep 99 22:00:12
To : Dmitry Belash
Subj : Compressors comparison tests 4. [0/8]
Ïpèâåòñòâóþ, Dmitry!
21 Sep 99, Dmitry Belash ïèñàë ê Vadim Yoockin:
VY>> Ïîäîñïåëè íîâûå êîìïðåññîðû, à âìåñòå ñ íèìè è òåñòû...
VY>> Äîáàâëåíî: lzds2, ppmdc, ba 0.99b
DB> Ïî÷åìó-òî AIN'à íåò. À âåäü î÷åíü äàæå øóñòðûé è æìåò ïðèëè÷íî. Èëè ÿ
DB> ÷åãî-òî íå ïîíèìàþ...
 ñâîå âðåìÿ îí áûë õîðîø... Hî ÿ íå ïðåñëåäîâàë öåëè âêëþ÷èòü
_âñå_ àðõèâàòîðû â òåñò. Çàäóìûâàëîñü îñâåòèòü state of art
â ñðàâíåíèè ñ êëàññèêîé.
Âñåãî äîáðîãî. Vadim Yoockin
... A Smith and Wesson beats four aces.
--- Ñòàpûé Äåä ñòîèìîñòüþ 3.00.Alpha4 äîïëàòà â ÑÊÂ UNREG
* Origin: yoockinv@mtu-net.ru,yoockinv@mail.ru,ICQ:44536013 (2:5020/1042.50)
— RU.COMPRESS
From : Vadim Yoockin 2:5020/1042.50 21 Sep 99 22:08:35
To : Bulat Ziganshin
Subj : Compressors comparison tests 4. [1/8]
Ïpèâåòñòâóþ, Bulat!
21 Sep 99, Bulat Ziganshin ïèñàë ê Vadim Yoockin:
VY>> Hî â ïðèíöèïå, ìîæíî. Ïðèäåòñÿ, ïðàâäà, èçìåðÿþùóþ ïðîãðàììó ïðàâèòü.
VY>> À ïåðåñ÷èòàòü óæå ñäåëàííîå - áåðåøüñÿ? :)
BZ> Èìõî, ëó÷øå âûâîäèòü ðåçóëüòàòû â êàêóþ-òî "ñûðóþ" áàçó è èç íåå óæå
BZ> äåëàòü ðàçíûå "ïðåäñòàâëåíèÿ". Âåäü ñêîðî è html ïîòðåáóåòñÿ, è rtf, è åùå
BZ> áîã çíàåò ÷òî.
×åì òåêñòîâûé ôàéë â ME íå "ñûðàÿ" áàçà? ;)
Åñòü åùå çàäóìêà ïðèäóìàòü ïàðó êðèòåðèåâ ëó÷øåñòè (ïîìèìî ACT'ñêîãî),
íî ýòî åùå â ïðîåêòå.
Âñåãî äîáðîãî. Vadim Yoockin
... A Smith and Wesson beats four aces.
--- Ñòàpûé Äåä ñòîèìîñòüþ 3.00.Alpha4 äîïëàòà â ÑÊÂ UNREG
* Origin: yoockinv@mtu-net.ru,yoockinv@mail.ru,ICQ:44536013 (2:5020/1042.50)
— RU.COMPRESS
From : Aleksei Pogorily 2:5020/1504 22 Sep 99 03:19:28
To : Vadim Yoockin
Subj : Compressors comparison tests 4. [1/8]
Hi Vadim!
At âòîpíèê, 21 ñåíò. 1999, 22:08 Vadim Yoockin wrote to Bulat Ziganshin:
BZ>> Èìõî, ëó÷øå âûâîäèòü ðåçóëüòàòû â êàêóþ-òî "ñûðóþ" áàçó è èç íåå óæå
BZ>> äåëàòü ðàçíûå "ïðåäñòàâëåíèÿ". Âåäü ñêîðî è html ïîòðåáóåòñÿ, è rtf, è åùå
BZ>> áîã çíàåò ÷òî.
VY> ×åì òåêñòîâûé ôàéë â ME íå "ñûðàÿ" áàçà? ;)
Hîpìàëüíî, äàæå, ÿ áû ñêàçàë, îòëè÷íî.
Òåêñò - ýòî óíèâåpñàëüíî.
Hå íàäî óïîäîáëÿòüñÿ ôèpìà÷àì, êîòîpûå â áîëüøèíòñòâå ñâîåì âûêëàäûâàþò ïpàéñû
â ñóïåp-ïóïåp íîâûõ âåpñèÿõ ýêñåëÿ, â påçóëüòàòå ñ MS Office 95 èõ ïîñìîòpåòü
íåâîçìîæíî.
VY> Åñòü åùå çàäóìêà ïðèäóìàòü ïàðó êðèòåðèåâ ëó÷øåñòè (ïîìèìî ACT'ñêîãî),
VY> íî ýòî åùå â ïðîåêòå.
Cheers, Aleksei [mailto:pogorily@hotmail.com]
--- GoldED/386 2.51.A1026+
* Origin: Home of Fire(7-095)421-1201 Freq 0:00-5:30,7:30-9:00 (2:5020/1504)
— RU.COMPRESS
From : Dmitry Pyankov 2:5020/400 22 Sep 99 07:39:02
To : All
Subj : Re: small decompression routine
From: Dmitry Pyankov <dp@fmf.gasu.gorny.ru>
Andrew Aksyonoff wrote:
> DS> Èùåòñÿ àëãîpèòì ñæàòèÿ, pàçìåp pàñïàêîâùèêà êîòîpîãî,
ïåpåïèñàííûé íà
> DS> àññåìáëåpå (16-bit code), íå ïpåâûñèò 220 áàéò. Pàçìåp êîäà
ñæàòèÿ íå
> LZ + Huffman/aryhmetic, ïðè æåëàíèè, ðåàëèçîâûâàåòñÿ äîâîëüíî
> èçÿùíî â 95 è 130 áàéò ñîîòâåòñòâåííî, ÷åìó äîêàçàòåëüñòâîì ñëóæàò
> Mesha è Omniscent. :-)  ïðèíöèïå, ðàñïàêîâùèêè ÿ ó íèõ ÷åñòíî
> ñïåð, à óïàêîâùèêè ïðèøëîñü íàïèñàòü. Òîðìîçíûå è ãëþ÷íûå, íî âåäü
> ðàáîòàþò. :-)
> Hà http://www.enlight.ru/faq3d åñòü ññûëêà íà èñõîäíèêè IsoWorld,
> òàê âîò òàì óïàêîâùèê ïðèëàãàåòñÿ è 95/102-byte stub òîæå.
Ñïåöèàëüíî ïîñìîòðåë... "aryhmetic" òàì íåò,(èëè ÿ íå íàøåë?) äà è
Õàôôìàíà êàê òàêîâîãî òîæå. Ïðîôåññèîíàëû, àó! Åñëè "òàáëè÷êè" "ïðîøèòû"
â ðàñïàêîâùèêå - ýòî ìîæíî íàçâàòü Õàôôìàíîì èëè íåò?
Bye. Dima.
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— RU.COMPRESS
From : Bulat Ziganshin 2:5093/28.26 22 Sep 99 07:56:23
To : Dmitry Pyankov
Subj : small decompression routine
* Crossposted in RU.COMPRESS
Hello Dmitry!
Wednesday September 22 1999, Dmitry Pyankov writes to All:
DP> Ñïåöèàëüíî ïîñìîòðåë... "aryhmetic" òàì íåò,(èëè ÿ íå íàøåë?) äà è
DP> Õàôôìàíà êàê òàêîâîãî òîæå. Ïðîôåññèîíàëû, àó! Åñëè "òàáëè÷êè"
DP> "ïðîøèòû" â ðàñïàêîâùèêå - ýòî ìîæíî íàçâàòü Õàôôìàíîì èëè íåò?
Äà.
Bulat, mailto:bulatz@fort.tatarstan.ru, ICQ 15872722
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: Windows 2000: ìû äîáàâèëè 1905 íîâûõ ãëþêîâ! (2:5093/28.26)
— RU.COMPRESS
From : Bulat Ziganshin 2:5093/28.26 22 Sep 99 15:24:12
To : All
Subj : Îøèáî÷êà â 7zip 2.00 release :)
* Crossposted in RU.COMPRESS
Hello All!
=== Cut ===
O:\>7zip a -mx archive \file.ext
7-ZIP Version 2.00 Copyright (c) 1999 Igor Pavlov 18-Jul-1999
Evaluation copy. Please register.
Error:
Incorrect wildcard in command line
O:\>
=== Cut ===
Ýòî îøèáî÷íîå ñîîáùåíèå îá îøèáêå äàåòñÿ íà ëþáîé àáñîëþòíûé ïóòü ê ôàéëó -
õîòü "\...", õîòü "d:\...". Ñ÷àñ Èãîðþ íàïèøó.
Bulat, mailto:bulatz@fort.tatarstan.ru, ICQ 15872722
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: Windows 2000: ìû äîáàâèëè 1905 íîâûõ ãëþêîâ! (2:5093/28.26)
— RU.COMPRESS
From : Alex Goldberg 2:468/57 23 Sep 99 09:55:14
To : Bulat Ziganshin
Subj : Re: Îøèáî÷êà â 7zip 2.00 release :)
Good morning, Bulat!
Wednesday September 22 1999 15:24, Bulat Ziganshin wrote to All:
BZ> Evaluation copy. Please register.
BZ> Error:
BZ> Incorrect wildcard in command line
O:\>>
BZ> === Cut ===
BZ> Ýòî îøèáî÷íîå ñîîáùåíèå îá îøèáêå äàåòñÿ íà ëþáîé àáñîëþòíûé ïóòü ê
BZ> ôàéëó - õîòü "\...", õîòü "d:\...". Ñ÷àñ Èãîðþ íàïèøó.
Çàîäíî äîáàâü, ÷òî ýòî íå îøèáêà, ýòî ôè÷à ;) - ïpîÿâëÿåòñÿ âî âñåõ
àpõèâàòîpàõ Èãîpÿ (BOA, 777, BIX)
Good luck ! Thursday September 23 1999
Alex Goldberg.
---
* Origin: ---- HANNIBAL LTD STATION ---- (UA,Kherson FIDOnet 2:468/57)
— RU.COMPRESS
From : Bulat Ziganshin 2:5093/28.26 23 Sep 99 14:21:19
To : Alex Goldberg
Subj : Îøèáî÷êà â 7zip 2.00 release :)
*** Answering a msg posted in area CARBON_COPIES (CARBON_COPIES).
* Crossposted in RU.COMPRESS
Hello Alex!
Thursday September 23 1999, Alex Goldberg writes to Bulat Ziganshin:
AG> Çàîäíî äîáàâü, ÷òî ýòî íå îøèáêà, ýòî ôè÷à ;) - ïpîÿâëÿåòñÿ âî
AG> âñåõ àpõèâàòîpàõ Èãîpÿ (BOA, 777, BIX)
Äà, îí óæå îáúÿñíèë :(
Bulat, mailto:bulatz@fort.tatarstan.ru, ICQ 15872722
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: Windows 2000: ìû äîáàâèëè 1905 íîâûõ ãëþêîâ! (2:5093/28.26)
— RU.COMPRESS
From : Vadim Yoockin 2:5020/400 23 Sep 99 15:46:16
To : Sergey Moskovchenko
Subj : Re: Compressors comparison tests 4. [1/8]
From: Vadim Yoockin <yoockinv@mtu-net.ru>
In article <937932821@p36.f9.n5037.z2.ftn>,
Sergey Moskovchenko <Sergey.Moskovchenko@p36.f9.n5037.z2.fidonet.org>
wrote:
> VY> Hî â ïðèíöèïå, ìîæíî. Ïðèäåòñÿ, ïðàâäà, èçìåðÿþùóþ ïðîãðàììó
> VY> ïðàâèòü.
>
> È âðåìÿ õîðîøî áû áåç ìèíóò, â ñåêóíäàõ,
Âèçóàëüíàÿ îðèåíòàöèÿ ïîòåðÿåòñÿ :)
> à ëó÷øå âîîáùå âñå åäåíèöû
> èçìåðåíèÿ ñäåëàòü îòíîñèòåëüíûìè ñæàòèå -- *ïðîöåíòû* îò èñõîäíîãî
> ðàçìåðû, à âìåñòî âðåìåíè äàâòü *ñêîðîñòü* ñæàòèÿ Kbytes/sec õîòÿ
> ýòî îïÿòü ìîå IMHO.
Håò ñìûñëà, èáî âñå ðàâíî îñòàåòñÿ ïðèâÿçêà ê àïïàðàòóðå.
È õîðîøî áû ñîõðàíèòü "ñîâìåñòèìîñòü" ñ ACT.
> VY> À ïåðåñ÷èòàòü óæå ñäåëàííîå - áåðåøüñÿ? :)
>
> Ýòî íà ÷àñ ðàáîòû âîáùåìòî, excel'åì áåðåøü è ïàò÷èøü... Åñëè î÷åíü
> íàäî ìîæíî äëÿ ýòîãî è ìàêðîñ êàêîé-íèáóäü íàïèñàòü.
Äà íåò, ýòî ÿ òàê ;) Ïðè ïîìîùè ME ýòî äåëàåòñÿ åùå áûñòðåå -
ìèíóò íà ïÿòü.
Âñåãî äîáðîãî,
Âàäèì.
P.S. À âîîáùå-òî ìû ñ îáñóæäåíèåì ìåòîäèêè èçìåðåíèé
îòõîäèì îò ýõîòàãà.
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— RU.COMPRESS
From : Alex Goldberg 2:468/57 23 Sep 99 16:54:44
To : Bulat Ziganshin
Subj : Re: Îøèáî÷êà â 7zip 2.00 release :)
Good morning, Bulat!
Thursday September 23 1999 14:21, Bulat Ziganshin wrote to Alex Goldberg:
AG>> Çàîäíî äîáàâü, ÷òî ýòî íå îøèáêà, ýòî ôè÷à ;) - ïpîÿâëÿåòñÿ
AG>> âî âñåõ àpõèâàòîpàõ Èãîpÿ (BOA, 777, BIX)
BZ> Äà, îí óæå îáúÿñíèë :(
À ïî÷åìó òàê çàäóìàíî, íå ñêàçàë ? ;-(
Good luck ! Thursday September 23 1999
Alex Goldberg.
---
* Origin: ---- HANNIBAL LTD STATION ---- (UA,Kherson FIDOnet 2:468/57)
— RU.COMPRESS
From : Oleg Lozhenitsyn 2:5020/400 23 Sep 99 20:21:53
To : All
Subj : Ïîìîãèòå ñ èíôîðìàöèåé
From: Oleg Lozhenitsyn <helg@vspu.kirov.ru>
Ïðèâåò âñåì.
Òóò òàêîå äåëî âîçíèêëî:
íóæíî íàïèñàòü êóðñà÷ íà òåìó àëãîðèòìîâ ñæàòèÿ äàííûõ ñî 100%
âîññòàíîâëåíèåì,
ò.å. íå ñæàòèå ãðàôèêè, à èìåííî èíôîðìàöèè, â ÷àñòíîñòè òåêñòîâûõ
ôàéëîâ.
Ìîæåò êòî êèíåò ññûëêè, îòêóäà ÷òî ìîæíî ñêà÷àòü ïî äàííîé òåìå.
Hóæíû ñòàòüè êíèãè è ò.ï., êîðî÷å, ÷èñòî òåîðèÿ.
Çàðàíåå ñïàñèáî.
Âñåãî íàèëó÷øåãî.
Helg
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* Origin: Demos online service (2:5020/400)
— RU.COMPRESS
From : Bulat Ziganshin 2:5093/28.26 23 Sep 99 21:50:55
To : Alex Goldberg
Subj : Îøèáî÷êà â 7zip 2.00 release :)
*** Answering a msg posted in area CARBON_COPIES (CARBON_COPIES).
* Crossposted in RU.COMPRESS
Hello Alex!
Thursday September 23 1999, Alex Goldberg writes to Bulat Ziganshin:
AG> À ïî÷åìó òàê çàäóìàíî, íå ñêàçàë ? ;-(
=== Cut ===
Ïî÷åìó ÿ íå ñäåëàë îáðàáîòêó òàêèõ ñëó÷àåâ:
1) íåïîíÿòíî êàê áûòü ñ ïîëíûìè ïóòÿìè.
2) òðóäíîñòè ñ ïðîãðàììèðîâàíèåì: ñåé÷àñ ÿ ïåðåáèðàþ
âñå ôàéëû îò òåêóùåé äèðåêòîðèè è ïðîâåðÿþ èõ
ïî âñåìó ñïèñêó(äåðåâó) ìàñîê. Ò.å. ïî äèñêó âûïîëíÿåòñÿ
òîëüêî îäèí ïðîõîä.
×òîáû èñïðàâèòü ýòî, íàäî ìíîãî êîäà ïåðåïèñûâàòü.
=== Cut ===
Bulat, mailto:bulatz@fort.tatarstan.ru, ICQ 15872722
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: Windows 2000: ìû äîáàâèëè 1905 íîâûõ ãëþêîâ! (2:5093/28.26)
— RU.COMPRESS
From : Sergey Moskovchenko 2:5037/9.36 23 Sep 99 22:37:02
To : All
Subj : Ïðåäåë êîìïðåññèè ôàéëîâ
-=>>> Hello All! <<<=-
Êàê ìîæíî ðàñ÷èòàòü subj è ÷åìó îí îðèåíòèðîâî÷íî ðàâåí? Âîîáùå ìåíÿ èíòåðåñóåò
, íàñêîëüêî àðõèâàòîðû ïðèáëèçèëèñü ê ñâîåìó òåîðåòè÷åñêîìó ïðåäåëó, ïåðåøàãíóò
ü ÷åðåç êîòîðûé åñòåñòâåííî óæå íåâîçìîæíî...
Âñåãî íàèëó÷øåãî!
Ñ óâàæåíèåì Ñåðãåé.
---
* Origin: Äàéòå ìíå òî÷êó îïîðû èëè ÿ ïåðåâåðíó âåñü ìèð! (2:5037/9.36)
— RU.COMPRESS
From : Bulat Ziganshin 2:5093/28.26 24 Sep 99 08:55:50
To : Sergey Moskovchenko
Subj : Ïðåäåë êîìïðåññèè ôàéëîâ
* Crossposted in RU.COMPRESS
Hello Sergey!
Thursday September 23 1999, Sergey Moskovchenko writes to All:
SM> Êàê ìîæíî ðàñ÷èòàòü subj è ÷åìó îí îðèåíòèðîâî÷íî ðàâåí?
~100%. Äëÿ êàæäîãî êîíêðåòíîãî ôàéëà ìîæíî ñîçäàòü àðõèâàòîð, ñæèìàþùèé ýòîò
ôàéë äî 0 áàéò :) È, åñëè òû áóäåøü ñ÷èòàòü åùå è ðàçìåð àðõèâàòîðà - ìàøèíó,
íà êîòîðîé 0-áàéòîâàÿ ïðîãðàììà áóäåò âûïîëíÿòü àëãîðèòì èìåííî ýòîãî ñàìîãî
óïàêîâùèêà :) Ñìèðèñü.
Bulat, mailto:bulatz@fort.tatarstan.ru, ICQ 15872722
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: Windows 2000: ìû äîáàâèëè 1905 íîâûõ ãëþêîâ! (2:5093/28.26)
— RU.COMPRESS
From : Alex Goldberg 2:468/57 24 Sep 99 10:08:07
To : Sergey Moskovchenko
Subj : Re: Ïðåäåë êîìïðåññèè ôàéëîâ
Good morning, Sergey!
Thursday September 23 1999 22:37, Sergey Moskovchenko wrote to All:
SM> Êàê ìîæíî ðàñ÷èòàòü subj è ÷åìó îí îðèåíòèðîâî÷íî ðàâåí? Âîîáùå ìåíÿ
Òû îïÿòü áàëóåøüñÿ ;) "Ïpåäåë êîìïpåññèè" ìîæíî ïîïûòàòüñÿ pàññ÷èòàòü äëÿ
îäíîãî-åäèíñòâåííîãî, êîíêpåòíî âçÿòîãî ôàéëà. Äëÿ ôàéëîâ "âîîáùå" - ýòî íåâîçì
îæíî.
Good luck ! Friday September 24 1999
Alex Goldberg.
---
* Origin: ---- HANNIBAL LTD STATION ---- (UA,Kherson FIDOnet 2:468/57)
— RU.COMPRESS
From : Vadim Yoockin 2:5020/400 24 Sep 99 10:10:37
To : Alex Goldberg
Subj : Re: Îøèáî÷êà â 7zip 2.00 release :)
From: Vadim Yoockin <yoockinv@mtu-net.ru>
In article <938080580@f57.n468.z2.ftn>,
Alex Goldberg <Alex.Goldberg@f57.n468.z2.fidonet.org> wrote:
> Çàîäíî äîáàâü, ÷òî ýòî íå îøèáêà, ýòî ôè÷à ;) - ïpîÿâëÿåòñÿ âî
> âñåõ àpõèâàòîpàõ Èãîpÿ (BOA, 777, BIX)
Hå BOA, à UFA, òû õîòåë ñêàçàòü ;)
(Àâòîð BOA - Ian Sutton).
Âñåãî äîáðîãî,
Âàäèì.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
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From : Alex Goldberg 2:468/57 24 Sep 99 10:16:40
To : Bulat Ziganshin
Subj : Re: Îøèáî÷êà â 7zip 2.00 release :)
Good morning, Bulat!
Thursday September 23 1999 21:50, Bulat Ziganshin wrote to Alex Goldberg:
AG>> À ïî÷åìó òàê çàäóìàíî, íå ñêàçàë ? ;-(
BZ> === Cut ===
BZ> Ïî÷åìó ÿ íå ñäåëàë îáðàáîòêó òàêèõ ñëó÷àåâ:
BZ> 1) íåïîíÿòíî êàê áûòü ñ ïîëíûìè ïóòÿìè.
BZ> 2) òðóäíîñòè ñ ïðîãðàììèðîâàíèåì: ñåé÷àñ ÿ ïåðåáèðàþ
BZ> âñå ôàéëû îò òåêóùåé äèðåêòîðèè è ïðîâåðÿþ èõ
BZ> ïî âñåìó ñïèñêó(äåðåâó) ìàñîê. Ò.å. ïî äèñêó âûïîëíÿåòñÿ
BZ> òîëüêî îäèí ïðîõîä.
BZ> ×òîáû èñïðàâèòü ýòî, íàäî ìíîãî êîäà ïåðåïèñûâàòü.
BZ> === Cut ===
??? ×òî-òî ÿ íå ïîéìó, íåóæåëè ïpîõîä ïî äåpåâó îò òåêóùåé äèpåêòîpèè îòëè
÷àåòñÿ îò ïpîõîäà ïî äåpåâó îò çàäàííîãî ïóòè ???
Good luck ! Friday September 24 1999
Alex Goldberg.
---
* Origin: ---- HANNIBAL LTD STATION ---- (UA,Kherson FIDOnet 2:468/57)
— RU.COMPRESS
From : Bulat Ziganshin 2:5093/28.26 24 Sep 99 11:11:29
To : Alex Goldberg
Subj : Îøèáî÷êà â 7zip 2.00 release :)
*** Answering a msg posted in area CARBON_COPIES (CARBON_COPIES).
* Crossposted in RU.COMPRESS
Hello Alex!
Friday September 24 1999, Alex Goldberg writes to Bulat Ziganshin:
BZ>> === Cut ===
BZ>> Ïî÷åìó ÿ íå ñäåëàë îáðàáîòêó òàêèõ ñëó÷àåâ:
BZ>> 1) íåïîíÿòíî êàê áûòü ñ ïîëíûìè ïóòÿìè.
BZ>> 2) òðóäíîñòè ñ ïðîãðàììèðîâàíèåì: ñåé÷àñ ÿ ïåðåáèðàþ
BZ>> âñå ôàéëû îò òåêóùåé äèðåêòîðèè è ïðîâåðÿþ èõ
BZ>> ïî âñåìó ñïèñêó(äåðåâó) ìàñîê. Ò.å. ïî äèñêó âûïîëíÿåòñÿ
BZ>> òîëüêî îäèí ïðîõîä.
BZ>> ×òîáû èñïðàâèòü ýòî, íàäî ìíîãî êîäà ïåðåïèñûâàòü.
BZ>> === Cut ===
AG> ??? ×òî-òî ÿ íå ïîéìó, íåóæåëè ïpîõîä ïî äåpåâó îò òåêóùåé
AG> äèpåêòîpèè îòëè÷àåòñÿ îò ïpîõîäà ïî äåpåâó îò çàäàííîãî ïóòè ???
Ïðîõîä áóäåò óæå íå îäèí :)
ñêàæåì arj a a \dir1\a d:\dir2\b
Bulat, mailto:bulatz@fort.tatarstan.ru, ICQ 15872722
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: Windows 2000: ìû äîáàâèëè 1905 íîâûõ ãëþêîâ! (2:5093/28.26)
— RU.COMPRESS
From : Dimas Gr 2:469/117.6 24 Sep 99 12:18:22
To : Bulat Ziganshin
Subj : Îøèáî÷êà â 7zip 2.00 release :)
@RealName: Ãpåáåíþê Äìèòpèé Ñåpãååâè÷
Hell o , Bulat !
Êàê ýòî íå â òîïèê... Hî âñå æå.
BZ> === Cut ===
BZ> Ïî÷åìó ÿ íå ñäåëàë îáðàáîòêó òàêèõ ñëó÷àåâ:
Âñå ýòè ïpîáëåìû îòíîñèòåëüíî ëåãêî påøàþòñÿ ïîä ÄÎÑîì. Ïîä win - íå çíàþ.
Åñòü ôóíêöèÿ QueryTrueName, int 21h, ah=60h. Hàïpèìåp, ÿ íàõîäèëñÿ â äèpå
c:\1\ , äàë ýòîé ôóíêöèè ñòpîêó '..\*.q' , îíà ïpåîápàçîâàëà åå â
'C:\????????.Q' . Òàê è íóæíî. Åñëè 7zip ïîä win (íå âèäåë ÿ åãî) - òî
ïîäñêàæèòå àâòîpó ïîäîáíóþ ôóíêöèþ ïîä win.
Dimas, aka gds/FH
--- [NICE.SOURCES(.D)]
* Origin: In hack we trust. (2:469/117.6)
— RU.COMPRESS
From : Bulat Ziganshin 2:5093/28.26 24 Sep 99 17:07:20
To : All
Subj : petite ðàñïàêîâàòü íóæíî
* Crossposted in RU.COMPRESS
Hello All!
Êàê ìîæíî ðàñïàêîâàòü petite?
Bulat, mailto:bulatz@fort.tatarstan.ru, ICQ 15872722
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: Windows 2000: ìû äîáàâèëè 1905 íîâûõ ãëþêîâ! (2:5093/28.26)
— RU.COMPRESS
From : Vadim Yoockin 2:5020/400 24 Sep 99 19:23:53
To : All
Subj : Compressors comparison tests in i-net
From: Vadim Yoockin <yoockinv@mtu-net.ru>
Ïðèâåòñòâóþ, All!
Compressors comparison tests (VYTEST), ðàâíî êàê è BWT FAQ, òåïåðü
äîñòóïíû íà http://chat.ru/~arctest.
Åñëè åñòü äîáðîâîëüöû íà ïåðåâîä ñòàòåé äëÿ ýòîãî ñàéòà, ñîîáùèòå
îá ýòîì ìíå èëè Êèðèëëó Âîëîøèíó íà kira-v@softhome.net.
Âñåãî äîáðîãî. Vadim Yoockin
yoockinv@mtu-net.ru, 2:5020/1042.50
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
--- ifmail v.2.14dev3
* Origin: Deja.com - Before you buy. (2:5020/400)
— RU.COMPRESS
From : Evgeny Lavrikov 2:5022/14.1 24 Sep 99 19:41:11
To : All
Subj : Ñæàòü PS, PDF ôàéë
Hello All!
×òî ëóøå âñåãî ñæèìàåò Subj? Ýòî âåêòîðíî-ãðàôè÷åñêèé ôîðìàò.
Ñåé÷àñ þçàþ UHARC, íî ìîæåò ÷òî ïîëó÷øå åñòü? È ãëàâíîå ãäå âçÿòü?
Evgeny
E-mail: axe@tula.net
http://www.klax.tula.ru/~axe
--- GoldED+/386 1.0.0
* Origin: Ïðîëåòåë êàê òðóñû íàä áàíåé... (2:5022/14.1)
— RU.COMPRESS
From : Sergey Moskovchenko 2:5037/9.36 24 Sep 99 21:12:13
To : Alex Goldberg
Subj : Re: Ïðåäåë êîìïðåññèè ôàéëîâ
Âîò ÷òî ðåøèë îòâåòèòü Sergey íà ïèñüìî êîòîðîå íàïèñàë Alex Goldberg:
Hello Alex!
SM> Êàê ìîæíî ðàñ÷èòàòü subj è ÷åìó îí îðèåíòèðîâî÷íî ðàâåí? Âîîáùå ìåíÿ
AG>
AG> Òû îïÿòü áàëóåøüñÿ ;) "Ïpåäåë êîìïpåññèè" ìîæíî ïîïûòàòüñÿ
AG> pàññ÷èòàòü äëÿ îäíîãî-åäèíñòâåííîãî, êîíêpåòíî âçÿòîãî ôàéëà. Äëÿ ôàéëîâ
AG> "âîîáùå" - ýòî íåâîçìîæíî.
Ïðåäåë ìîæíî ðàñ÷èòàòü äëÿ îäíîãî ôàéëà èëè êîíêðåòíî âûáðàííîãî òèïà äàííûõ (
òåêñò, ãðàôèêà, çâóê) Håóæåëè ýòîãî íèêòî íå äåëàë?
Âñåãî íàèëó÷øåãî!
Ñ óâàæåíèåì Ñåðãåé.
---
* Origin: The truth is out there. (2:5037/9.36)
— RU.COMPRESS
From : Alexander Kulik 2:4635/8.18 24 Sep 99 22:10:41
To : Oleg Lozhenitsyn
Subj : Ïîìîãèòå ñ èíôîðìàöèåé
Hello, Oleg!
Êàê-òî Oleg Lozhenitsyn ïèñÀë(à) ê All:
OL> íóæíî íàïèñàòü êóðñà÷ íà òåìó àëãîðèòìîâ ñæàòèÿ äàííûõ ñî 100%
OL> âîññòàíîâëåíèåì,
Ó ìåíÿ çíàêîìûé òîæå ñàìîå ïèñàë, åñëè íàäî, ìîãy çàìûëèòü (word format 30
0kb packed ace),
ýòîò òåêñò íà yêðàèíñêîì ÿçûêå(!). Åñëè òû ñ Óêðàèíû èëè õîðîøî ïîíèìàåøü ïî íà
øåìy òî ïîéìåøü.
Wolf of eTc/Scene
--- . zepler .
* Origin: aluminium jazzz & fuzz fucking (2:4635/8.18)
— RU.COMPRESS
From : Bulat Ziganshin 2:5093/28.26 24 Sep 99 23:59:02
To : All
Subj : Ðàçûñêèâàåòñÿ Àëåêñàíäð Õîðîøåâ
* Crossposted in RU.COMPRESS
Hello All!
Âîò êàêîå ïèñüìî ÿ ïîëó÷èë îò Ìàðêåëÿ Ëåìêå, àâòîðà ACE:
=== Cut ===
...
So I wondered if you know sbd., called "Alexander Khoroshev". He
also helped Eugene and I'd like to contact him - hoping that he helps
me improving my archiver (ace, perhaps you know it already?).
But I could not find anything about him in the www and newsgroups.
I'd be really thankful if you could give me any information.
=== Cut ===
Åñëè êòî ìîæåò ïîìî÷ü - ìûëüòå ìíå èëè íà "Marcel Lemke" <mlemke@winace.com>
Bulat, mailto:bulatz@fort.tatarstan.ru, ICQ 15872722
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: Windows 2000: ìû äîáàâèëè 1905 íîâûõ ãëþêîâ! (2:5093/28.26)
— RU.COMPRESS
From : Maxime Zakharov 2:5020/400 25 Sep 99 01:06:23
To : All
Subj : Re: Ïðåäåë êîìïðåññèè ôàéëîâ
From: Maxime Zakharov <maxime@tnet.sochi.net>
Sergey Moskovchenko wrote:
> Ïðåäåë ìîæíî ðàñ÷èòàòü äëÿ îäíîãî ôàéëà èëè êîíêðåòíî âûáðàííîãî òèïà äàííûõ
> (òåêñò, ãðàôèêà, çâóê) Håóæåëè ýòîãî íèêòî íå äåëàë?
Ïðåäåëîì ñæàòèÿ ÿâëÿåòñÿ ñëîæíîñòü ïî Êîëìîãîðîâó (ïðîãðàììà
ìèíèìàëüíîé äëèííû, ïîðîæäàþùàÿ èñõîäíûé ôàéë - èìååòñÿ â âèäó
êîìïðåññîð ñ íåîáõîäèìûì äëÿ ýòîãî âõîäîì) - àáñîëþòíîå çíà÷åíèå
ïîñ÷èòàòü íåâîçìîæíî, â ïðèíöèïå.
Ê ïðèìåðó, ìîæíî âçÿòü ëþáîé òåñò àðõèâàòîðîâ - êðîìå ïðî÷åãî â íèõ
óêàçûâàåòñÿ (ñêîðåå íåÿâíî :) Êîëìîãîðîâà ñëîæíîñòü èñïîëüçóåìûõ â
òåñòàõ ôàéëîâ, è, åñòåñòâåííî, âðåìÿ îò âðåìåíè îíà óìåíüøàåòñÿ...
--
Maxime Zakharov
Sochi, Russia
http://tnet.sochi.net/~maxime/
--- ifmail v.2.14dev3
* Origin: Technology Communication Centre, Sochi (2:5020/400)
— RU.COMPRESS
From : Aleksei Pogorily 2:5020/1504 25 Sep 99 01:37:47
To : Alex Goldberg
Subj : Ïðåäåë êîìïðåññèè ôàéëîâ
Hi Alex!
At ïÿòíèöà, 24 ñåíò. 1999, 10:08 Alex Goldberg wrote to Sergey Moskovchenko:
SM>> Êàê ìîæíî ðàñ÷èòàòü subj è ÷åìó îí îðèåíòèðîâî÷íî ðàâåí? Âîîáùå ìåíÿ
AG> Òû îïÿòü áàëóåøüñÿ ;) "Ïpåäåë êîìïpåññèè" ìîæíî ïîïûòàòüñÿ pàññ÷èòàòü
AG> äëÿ îäíîãî-åäèíñòâåííîãî, êîíêpåòíî âçÿòîãî ôàéëà. Äëÿ ôàéëîâ "âîîáùå" -
AG> ýòî íåâîçìîæíî.
Ïpåäåë êîìïpåññèè äëÿ îäíîãî ôàéëà - 1 áèò (ýòîò ôàéë èëè êàêîé-òî äpóãîé, â ñë
ó÷àå äpóãîãî áèò áóäåò, êîíå÷íî ïîáîëüøå). À âîîáùå åñòü òàêîå ïîíÿòèå ýíòpîïèè
.
Cheers, Aleksei [mailto:pogorily@hotmail.com]
--- GoldED/386 2.51.A1026+
* Origin: Home of Fire(7-095)421-1201 Freq 0:00-5:30,7:30-9:00 (2:5020/1504)
— RU.COMPRESS
From : Aleksei Pogorily 2:5020/1504 25 Sep 99 11:14:10
To : Evgeny Lavrikov
Subj : Ñæàòü PS, PDF ôàéë
Hi Evgeny!
At ïÿòíèöà, 24 ñåíò. 1999, 19:41 Evgeny Lavrikov wrote to All:
EL> ×òî ëóøå âñåãî ñæèìàåò Subj? Ýòî âåêòîðíî-ãðàôè÷åñêèé ôîðìàò.
EL> Ñåé÷àñ þçàþ UHARC, íî ìîæåò ÷òî ïîëó÷øå åñòü? È ãëàâíîå ãäå âçÿòü?
Ïîñòñêpèïò - ýòî òåêñò ñïåöèôè÷åñêîãî âèäà, ñæèìàåòñÿ õîpîøî. ß áû ïîïpîáîâàë ò
î, ÷òî äàåò íàèëó÷øèå påçóëüòàòû ïpè ñæàòèè òåêñòà, íó òàì RKUC, íàïpèìåp.
PDF - ñæèìàåòñÿ ïëîõî, ò.ê. óæå ñæàòûé. Ðàçíûå ôàéëû pdf ñæèìàþòñÿ íà 3-30%. Äà
æå, íå çíàþ, ÷òî äàñò íà òàêèõ ôàéëàõ ëó÷øèé påçóëüòàò. Hî íå ñèëüíûå ñæèìàòåëè
äëÿ òåêñòà. Ìîæåò, òî, ÷òî exe õîpîøî æìåò?
Cheers, Aleksei [mailto:pogorily@hotmail.com]
--- GoldED/386 2.51.A1026+
* Origin: Home of Fire(7-095)421-1201 Freq 0:00-5:30,7:30-9:00 (2:5020/1504)
— RU.COMPRESS
From : Dimas Gr 2:469/117.6 25 Sep 99 16:29:26
To : Bulat Ziganshin
Subj : petite ðàñïàêîâàòü íóæíî
Hell o , Bulat !
BZ> Êàê ìîæíî ðàñïàêîâàòü petite?
Åñëè ýòî óïàêîâùèê pe-exe (êàê ãîâîpèò procdump) - òî pàñïàêîâûâàåòñÿ
procdump'îì. Â èíåòå åñòü afair íà ufc2000.com (ÿ ìîãó ãíàòü), íà áîëüøèíñòâå
õàêåpñêèõ ñàéòîâ.
Dimas, aka gds/FH
--- [NICE.SOURCES(.D)]
* Origin: In hack we trust. (2:469/117.6)
— RU.COMPRESS
From : Sergey Moskovchenko 2:5037/9.36 25 Sep 99 21:02:32
To : All
Subj : Ïðåäåë êîìïðåññèè -- ÷àñòü âòîðàÿ
-=>>> Hello All! <<<=-
Âîáùåì êîíêðåòíîãî îòâåòà ÿ íà ñàáæåâûé âîïðîñ íå ïîëó÷èë, âîïðîñ ñîñòîÿë â òîì
, íàñêîëüêî áëèçêè âîçìîæíîñòè àðõèâàòîðîâ ïî ñæàòèþ ðàçëè÷íûõ äàííûõ ê òåîðåòè
÷åñêîìó ïðåäåëó. Ñæàòèå ýòî ÈÌÕÎ åñòü ëèêâèäàöèÿ èçáûòî÷íîé èíôîðìàöèè â ôàéëàõ
, âîò è âñå. Ñëåäîâàòåëüíî çíàÿ êîëè÷åñòâî èçáûòî÷íîé èíôîðìàöèè íàïðèìåð â òåê
ñòîâûõ ôàéëàõ, ìîæíî íàéòè èõ òåîðåòè÷åñêèé ïðåäåë ñæàòèÿ. Âîáùåì ÿ òóò íàêàòàë
ïðîãðàìêó, êîòîðàÿ ãåíåðèðóåò ôàéë ñ çàäàííûì êîëè÷åñòâîì èçáûòî÷íîé èíôîðìàöè
è, îò 0 äî 100%, ïðè÷åì èçáûòî÷íîñòü ñîäåðæèòñÿ â ïîñëåäíèõ áèòàõ 8 - áèòíîé ïî
ñëåäîâàòåëüíîñòè äàííûõ.
ß ñäåëàë ýòîé ïðîãðàìêîé ôàéë 100 Êá ñ èçáûòî÷íîñòüþ 75% (òåîðåòè÷åñêèé ïðåäåë
ñæàòèÿ ñîîòâåòñòâåííî 25%) è ïîëó÷èë íà íåì òàêèå ðåçóëüòàòû:
type size ds
--- 100 Êá ---
ha 25,5 Êá 0,5%
zip 29,6 Êá 4,6%
arj 29,7 Êá 4,7%
rar 31,1 Êá 6,1%
ãäå ïîñëåäíèé ñòîëáåö íåäîæàòèå äàííûì àðõèâàòîðîì äàííûõ ïî ñðàâíåíèå ñ òåîðåò
è÷åñêèì ïðåäåëîì. Òåñò åñòåñòâåííî íè÷åãî íå ãîâîðèò, ò.ê. èñõîäíûå äàííûå î÷åí
ü ñïåöèôè÷íû, íî âñåæå ïîëó÷àåòñÿ, ÷òî àðõèâàòîðû âûæèìàþò èç ýòîãî òèïà äàííûõ
99,5% ëèøíåé èíôîðìàöèè, ò.å. óëó÷øàòü òóò ïî÷òè íå÷åãî, à êàê îáñòîÿò äåëà ñ
äðóãèìè òèïàìè äàííûõ ìîæåò êòî - íèáóäü ñêàçàòü?
section 1 of file generat.arj < uuencode by Dos Navigator >
filetime 658082246
table
`!"#$%&'()*+,-./0123456789:;<=>?
@ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ[\]^_
begin 644 generat.arj
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sum -r/size 61752/3023 entire input file
Âñåãî íàèëó÷øåãî!
Ñ óâàæåíèåì Ñåðãåé.
---
* Origin: Äàéòå ìíå òî÷êó îïîðû èëè ÿ ïåðåâåðíó âåñü ìèð! (2:5037/9.36)
— RU.COMPRESS
From : Bulat Ziganshin 2:5093/28.26 25 Sep 99 22:31:35
To : Dimas Gr
Subj : petite ðàñïàêîâàòü íóæíî
*** Answering a msg posted in area CARBON_COPIES (CARBON_COPIES).
* Crossposted in RU.COMPRESS
Hello Dimas!
Saturday September 25 1999, Dimas Gr writes to Bulat Ziganshin:
BZ>> Êàê ìîæíî ðàñïàêîâàòü petite?
DG> Åñëè ýòî óïàêîâùèê pe-exe (êàê ãîâîpèò procdump) - òî
Óâû, pd 1.5 íå ðàñïàêîâûâàåò petite 2.0. Òàê ìíå ñêàçàëè.
Bulat, mailto:bulatz@fort.tatarstan.ru, ICQ 15872722
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: Windows 2000: ìû äîáàâèëè 1905 íîâûõ ãëþêîâ! (2:5093/28.26)
— RU.COMPRESS
From : Dmitry Belash 2:5030/856.12 26 Sep 99 02:57:50
To : Sergey Moskovchenko
Subj : Ïðåäåë êîìïðåññèè -- ÷àñòü âòîðàÿ
¦_¦*
¦ ¦¦ Sergey!
25 Ñåí 99 ã. Hà ÷àñàõ 21:02. È ïèøåò Sergey Moskovchenko ê All:
SM> Âîáùåì êîíêðåòíîãî îòâåòà ÿ íà ñàáæåâûé âîïðîñ íå ïîëó÷èë, âîïðîñ
SM> ñîñòîÿë â òîì, íàñêîëüêî áëèçêè âîçìîæíîñòè àðõèâàòîðîâ ïî ñæàòèþ
SM> ðàçëè÷íûõ äàííûõ ê òåîðåòè÷åñêîìó ïðåäåëó. Ñæàòèå ýòî ÈÌÕÎ åñòü
SM> ëèêâèäàöèÿ èçáûòî÷íîé èíôîðìàöèè â ôàéëàõ, âîò è âñå. Ñëåäîâàòåëüíî
SM> çíàÿ êîëè÷åñòâî èçáûòî÷íîé èíôîðìàöèè íàïðèìåð â òåêñòîâûõ ôàéëàõ,
SM> ìîæíî íàéòè èõ òåîðåòè÷åñêèé ïðåäåë ñæàòèÿ. Âîáùåì ÿ òóò íàêàòàë
SM> ïðîãðàìêó, êîòîðàÿ ãåíåðèðóåò ôàéë ñ çàäàííûì êîëè÷åñòâîì èçáûòî÷íîé
SM> èíôîðìàöèè, îò 0 äî 100%, ïðè÷åì èçáûòî÷íîñòü ñîäåðæèòñÿ â ïîñëåäíèõ
SM> áèòàõ 8 - áèòíîé ïîñëåäîâàòåëüíîñòè äàííûõ.
Ýòî íå ñîâñåì ïðàâèëüíî èìõî. Äëÿ òâîèõ "75%" èçáûòî÷íîñòè â êàæäîì áàéòå ïîñëå
äíèå 6 áèò - íóëè, àðõèâàòîð ýòî ïîéìåò, è äëÿ áîëüøèõ ôàéëîâ òû ïîëó÷èøü ñæàòè
å ïî÷òè â òî÷íîñòè íà 75%. Çàìåòü: äëÿ ýòîãî íå íóæíî ñëîæíûõ àëãîðèòìîâ, äîñòà
òî÷íî ïðîñòî áðàòü îò êàæäîãî áàéòà 2 ïåðâûõ áèòà è òóïî ïåðåïñûâàòü èõ â âûõîä
íîé ôàéë.  äàííîì ñëó÷àå öåëåñîîáðàçíåå (IMHO) áûëî áû ãåíåðèðîâàòü ïîñëåäîâàò
åëüíîñòü, â êîòîðîé _â_ñðåäíåì_ íóëåé â 3 ðàçà áîëüøå, ÷åì åäèíèö (èëè íàîáîðîò
). Õîòÿ è ýòî áóäåò íå ñîâñåì 75% (ó ìåíÿ íà ôîðìóëû ñêëåðîç, ìîæ êòî íàïèøåò).
SM> ß ñäåëàë ýòîé ïðîãðàìêîé
SM> ôàéë 100 Êá ñ èçáûòî÷íîñòüþ 75% (òåîðåòè÷åñêèé ïðåäåë ñæàòèÿ
SM> ñîîòâåòñòâåííî 25%) è ïîëó÷èë íà íåì òàêèå ðåçóëüòàòû:
SM> ãäå ïîñëåäíèé ñòîëáåö íåäîæàòèå äàííûì àðõèâàòîðîì äàííûõ ïî
SM> ñðàâíåíèå ñ òåîðåòè÷åñêèì ïðåäåëîì.
Õî÷ó òåáÿ îãîð÷èòü - òåîðåòè÷åñêèé ïðåäåë ñæàòèÿ (ýíòðîïèÿ) â äàííîì ñëó÷àå ðàâ
íà ìèíèìàëüíîìó ðàçìåðó àãëîðèòìà, ïîðîæäàþùåãî ïîñëåäîâàòåëüíîñòü, ò.å. ãîðàçä
î ìåíüøå äëèíû òâîåé ïðîãðàììû (õîòÿ ðàçìåð àëãîðèòìà íåëüçÿ âûðàçèòü â áàéòàõ
:).
Bye!
Dmitry.
--- @c:\windows\win386.swp
* Origin: xxxxxxns smopu!M (2:5030/856.12)
— RU.COMPRESS
From : Bulat Ziganshin 2:5093/28.26 26 Sep 99 13:21:39
To : Alexander Alferowich
Subj : Ðàçûñêèâàåòñÿ Àëåêñàíäð Õîðîøåâ
*** Answering a msg posted in area CARBON_COPIES (CARBON_COPIES).
* Crossposted in RU.COMPRESS
Hello Alexander!
Sunday September 26 1999, Alexander Alferowich writes to Bulat Ziganshin:
BZ>> So I wondered if you know sbd., called "Alexander Khoroshev". He
BZ>> also helped Eugene and I'd like to contact him - hoping that he
BZ>> helps me improving my archiver (ace, perhaps you know it
BZ>> already?).
AA> Ïîìîùü îêàçàëàñü íàñòîëüêî îùóòèìîé èëè ýòî ïpîñòî æåëàíèå ñíîâà
AA> îáñòàâèòü RAR?
À ÿ îòêóäà çíàþ? btw, âñïîìíèë, ÷òî ó ìåíÿ ëåò 10 íàçàä áûë çíàêîìûé - Ñàøà Ï
ëîõîâ :)
Bulat, mailto:bulatz@fort.tatarstan.ru, ICQ 15872722
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: Windows 2000: ìû äîáàâèëè 1905 íîâûõ ãëþêîâ! (2:5093/28.26)
— RU.COMPRESS
From : Alexander Alferowich 2:5031/14 26 Sep 99 13:55:53
To : Bulat Ziganshin
Subj : Ðàçûñêèâàåòñÿ Àëåêñàíäð Õîðîøåâ
Ïðèâåò, Bulat!
Friday September 24 1999 â 22:59, Bulat Ziganshin ïèñàë ê All:
BZ> So I wondered if you know sbd., called "Alexander Khoroshev". He
BZ> also helped Eugene and I'd like to contact him - hoping that he helps
BZ> me improving my archiver (ace, perhaps you know it already?).
Ïîìîùü îêàçàëàñü íàñòîëüêî îùóòèìîé èëè ýòî ïpîñòî æåëàíèå ñíîâà îáñòàâèòü RAR?
Âñåãî äîápîãî! :-) Àëåêñàíäåp
... Ñòóäåíòû çíàëè ñâîå îáùåæèòèå êàê îáëóïëåííîå.
--- Cut here
* Origin: Fat Spirit of Little Spaceman (2:5031/14)
— RU.COMPRESS
From : KiLL Zlotnikoff 2:452/47.666 26 Sep 99 17:07:04
To : Bulat Ziganshin
Subj : petite pàñïàêîâàòü íóæíî
ã=[ Ïpèâåò Bulat! ]==------ - -
BZ> Êàê ìîæíî pàñïàêîâàòü petite?
Ïpåæäå âñåãî: ñàì íå ïpîáîâàë, íå íóæíî áûëî.
Hî...
...âñåãäà åñòü ProcDump è åñëè ñ póêàìè âñ¸ â ïîpÿäêå è åñòü çíàíèÿ, òî
ìîæíî pàñïàêîâàòü âñ¸.
...åù¸ åñòü êëèåíò ê Brahma Server'ó ProcDump'îâñêîìó
...åù¸ åñòü (âèäåë îäèí) standalone pàñïàêîâùèê
L=[ Ïpîùàé Bulat. ]==------ - - [/*KiLL in Quake*/]
--- GoldED ¤ Godzilovichy ¤ Gomel
* Origin: NETMAIL (2:452/47.666)
— RU.COMPRESS
From : Sergey Moskovchenko 2:5037/9.36 26 Sep 99 18:44:27
To : Dmitry Belash
Subj : Ïðåäåë êîìïðåññèè -- ÷àñòü âòîðàÿ
Âîò ÷òî ðåøèë îòâåòèòü Sergey íà ïèñüìî êîòîðîå íàïèñàë Dmitry Belash:
Hello Dmitry!
SM> Âîáùåì êîíêðåòíîãî îòâåòà ÿ íà ñàáæåâûé âîïðîñ íå ïîëó÷èë, âîïðîñ
SM> ñîñòîÿë â òîì, íàñêîëüêî áëèçêè âîçìîæíîñòè àðõèâàòîðîâ ïî ñæàòèþ
SM> ðàçëè÷íûõ äàííûõ ê òåîðåòè÷åñêîìó ïðåäåëó. Ñæàòèå ýòî ÈÌÕÎ åñòü
SM> ëèêâèäàöèÿ èçáûòî÷íîé èíôîðìàöèè â ôàéëàõ, âîò è âñå. Ñëåäîâàòåëüíî
SM> çíàÿ êîëè÷åñòâî èçáûòî÷íîé èíôîðìàöèè íàïðèìåð â òåêñòîâûõ ôàéëàõ,
SM> ìîæíî íàéòè èõ òåîðåòè÷åñêèé ïðåäåë ñæàòèÿ. Âîáùåì ÿ òóò íàêàòàë
SM> ïðîãðàìêó, êîòîðàÿ ãåíåðèðóåò ôàéë ñ çàäàííûì êîëè÷åñòâîì èçáûòî÷íîé
SM> èíôîðìàöèè, îò 0 äî 100%, ïðè÷åì èçáûòî÷íîñòü ñîäåðæèòñÿ â ïîñëåäíèõ
SM> áèòàõ 8 - áèòíîé ïîñëåäîâàòåëüíîñòè äàííûõ.
DB> Ýòî íå ñîâñåì ïðàâèëüíî èìõî. Äëÿ òâîèõ "75%" èçáûòî÷íîñòè â êàæäîì áàéòå
DB> ïîñëåäíèå 6 áèò - íóëè, àðõèâàòîð ýòî ïîéìåò, è äëÿ áîëüøèõ ôàéëîâ òû
Îí êîíå÷íî ýòî íå "ïîéìåò", íî òàê îíî è ïîëó÷åòñÿ â èòîãå, ÷åðåç ïîèñê ïîñëåäî
âàòåëüíîñòåé, êðàòíûõ 8 áèòàì.
DB> ïîëó÷èøü ñæàòèå ïî÷òè â òî÷íîñòè íà 75%. Çàìåòü: äëÿ ýòîãî íå íóæíî
DB> ñëîæíûõ àëãîðèòìîâ, äîñòàòî÷íî ïðîñòî áðàòü îò êàæäîãî áàéòà 2 ïåðâûõ
DB> áèòà è òóïî ïåðåïñûâàòü èõ â âûõîäíîé ôàéë.  äàííîì ñëó÷àå
Òàêèõ àëãîðèòìîâ ñæàòèÿ IMHO íåò, ñëèøêîì óæ âñå ïðîñòî, õîòÿ â äàííîì ñëó÷àå î
íè áûëè áû ñàìûìè îïòèìàëüíûìè.
DB> öåëåñîîáðàçíåå (IMHO) áûëî áû ãåíåðèðîâàòü
DB> ïîñëåäîâàòåëüíîñòü, â êîòîðîé _â_ñðåäíåì_ íóëåé â 3 ðàçà áîëüøå, ÷åì
DB> åäèíèö (èëè íàîáîðîò). Õîòÿ è ýòî áóäåò íå ñîâñåì 75% (ó ìåíÿ íà ôîðìóëû
DB> ñêëåðîç, ìîæ êòî íàïèøåò).
Ðåçóëüòàòû òàì ïîëó÷àþòñÿ óæå íå òàêèå êðàñèâûå - ïðè 75% èçáûòî÷íîñòè ôàéë íå
æìåìñÿ íè÷åì, ïðè 90% æìåòñÿ äî 85% è ïðè 99% äî 18% îò ïåðâîíà÷àëüíîãî ðàçìåðà
.
SM> ß ñäåëàë ýòîé ïðîãðàìêîé
SM> ôàéë 100 Êá ñ èçáûòî÷íîñòüþ 75% (òåîðåòè÷åñêèé ïðåäåë ñæàòèÿ
SM> ñîîòâåòñòâåííî 25%) è ïîëó÷èë íà íåì òàêèå ðåçóëüòàòû:
SM> ãäå ïîñëåäíèé ñòîëáåö íåäîæàòèå äàííûì àðõèâàòîðîì äàííûõ ïî
SM> ñðàâíåíèå ñ òåîðåòè÷åñêèì ïðåäåëîì.
DB> Õî÷ó òåáÿ îãîð÷èòü - òåîðåòè÷åñêèé ïðåäåë ñæàòèÿ (ýíòðîïèÿ) â äàííîì
DB> ñëó÷àå ðàâíà ìèíèìàëüíîìó ðàçìåðó àãëîðèòìà, ïîðîæäàþùåãî
DB> ïîñëåäîâàòåëüíîñòü, ò.å. ãîðàçäî ìåíüøå äëèíû òâîåé ïðîãðàììû (õîòÿ
DB> ðàçìåð àëãîðèòìà íåëüçÿ âûðàçèòü â áàéòàõ :).
Ýòî âñå òåîðèÿ, îíà êîíå÷íî ñ îäíîé ñòîðîíû ïðàâà - ñòîáèòíûì êîäîì äåìêè ìîæíî
íàðèñîâàòü áåñêîíå÷íî ñëîæíóþ ôðàêòàëüíóþ êàðòèíêó, íî êàê ñæàòü ëþáîé òåêñò è
ëè "øóì" â áåñêîíå÷íî ìàëûé êîä? Êîíå÷íî äëÿ êàæäîãî îòäåëüíîãî ñëó÷àÿ ýòî âïîë
íå âîçìîæíî, à âîò äëÿ êîíêðåòíîãî òèïà äàííûõ âðÿä ëè. Ñîæìèòå ìíå êòî - íèáóä
ü ëþáîé õóäîæåñòâåííûé òåêñò áåç ïîòåðü â 1000 ðàç :)
Hàñ÷åò íàõîæäåíèÿ ñàáæà -- äëÿ òåêñòîâèêîâ (äà è äëÿ äðóãèõ íåñëîæíûõ äàííûõ) I
MHO ìîæíî íàõîäèòü ïðèìåðíî ïî ñæàòèþ ëó÷øèì àëãîðèòìîì ïî ñæàòèþ òåêñòîâ. Äóìà
þ ÷òî ðåàëüíî ïîñ÷èòàòü òåîðåòè÷åñêè åãî áóäåò ïðàêòè÷åñêè íåâîçìîæíî...
Âñåãî íàèëó÷øåãî!
Ñ óâàæåíèåì Ñåðãåé.
---
* Origin: The truth is out there. (2:5037/9.36)
— RU.COMPRESS
From : Vasya Abrosimov 2:5033/13.94 26 Sep 99 21:55:58
To : All
Subj : Ìåòîäû àpõèâàöèè Rar'à
Ïpèâåò, All!
Hå ïîäêèíåò ëè êòî-íèáyäü äîêyìåíòèêîâ ïî ñàáæy è âîîáùå ïî Rar'y?
Áyäy î÷åíü áëàãîäàpåí.
Ìîæíî êèäàòüñÿ ypëàìè, íî æåëàòåëüíî ÷òîá âñå påñypñû áûëè ïî pyññêè.
Ïîêà, All!
... Â òåñíîòå, äà íå ïîä Stacker'îì.
--- GoldED/W32 3.0.1
* Origin: "Rage,Rage against the dying of the light"-(C)Dylan (2:5033/13.94)
— RU.COMPRESS
From : Ivan Azmanoff 2:5093/27.22 27 Sep 99 09:30:19
To : All
Subj : AIN
Àõ! Òàê ýòî òû - All!
Ïèïëû! Ñêàæèòå ñàáæ ïîíîâåå åùå ñyùåñòâyåò? Èëè project closed?
Ó ìåíÿ âpîäå áûë 232. Æìåò î÷åíü äàæå áûñòpî. Õîòÿ ïî ñòåïåíè êîìïpåññèè
yæå ñèëüíî îòñòàåò. Hî áûëî âpåìÿ.....
Sincerely Yours Ivan
--- FMail/Win32 1.42/g
* Origin: All dirty ways lead to Bill Gates (2:5093/27.22)
— RU.COMPRESS
From : Anton V. Tykhyy 2:5020/400 27 Sep 99 11:26:39
To : All
Subj : Re: Ìåòîäû àpõèâàöèè Rar'à
From: "Anton V. Tykhyy" <pardux@ptf.ntu-kpi.kiev.ua>
> Hå ïîäêèíåò ëè êòî-íèáyäü äîêyìåíòèêîâ ïî ñàáæy è âîîáùå ïî Rar'y?
> Áyäy î÷åíü áëàãîäàpåí.
> Ìîæíî êèäàòüñÿ ypëàìè, íî æåëàòåëüíî ÷òîá âñå påñypñû áûëè ïî pyññêè.
 ïðèíöèïå ìíå óäàëîñü ñäåëàòü ñîâìåñòèìóþ ñ rar-îì ïðîãðàììó ñæàòèÿ, íî
îíà âî-ïåðâûõ äèêî òîðìîçèò (îïòèìèçèðîâàòü àáñîëþòíî ëåíü) à âî âòîðûõ ïðè
áîëüøèõ âõîäíûõ ôàéëàõ (~1MB) ïîÿâëÿþòñÿ ãëþêè... äà è ñòåïåíü ñæàòèÿ ïîõóæå
áóäåò. Åñëè êîìó èíòåðåñíî - ìûëüòå, ïîäåëþñü...
Regards, pardux
[ICQ# 38457991]
--- ifmail v.2.14dev3
* Origin: Kiev Institute of Physics & Technologies (2:5020/400)
— RU.COMPRESS
From : Mike Lykov 2:5057/44 27 Sep 99 12:12:54
To : Sergey Moskovchenko
Subj : Ïðåäåë êîìïðåññèè -- ÷àñòü âòîðàÿ
Çäðàâñòâóé, Sergey. Hå æäàë?
Sunday September 26 1999, Sergey Moskovchenko =>> Dmitry Belash:
DB>> ïîëó÷èøü ñæàòèå ïî÷òè â òî÷íîñòè íà 75%. Çàìåòü: äëÿ ýòîãî íå íóæíî
DB>> ñëîæíûõ àëãîðèòìîâ, äîñòàòî÷íî ïðîñòî áðàòü îò êàæäîãî áàéòà 2 ïåðâûõ
DB>> áèòà è òóïî ïåðåïñûâàòü èõ â âûõîäíîé ôàéë.  äàííîì ñëó÷àå
SM> Òàêèõ àëãîðèòìîâ ñæàòèÿ IMHO íåò, ñëèøêîì óæ âñå ïðîñòî, õîòÿ â äàííîì
SM> ñëó÷àå îíè áûëè áû ñàìûìè îïòèìàëüíûìè.
Êàê-íåò?
Ýòî êàê ðàç íàîáîðîò, ñàìûé ïåðâûé è ïðîñòîé àëãîðèòì :)
Âìåñòî äëèííîé ïîñëåäîâàòåëüíîñòè îäèíàêîâûõ áàéò çàïèñûâàåòñÿ îäèí áàéò è èõ ÷
èñëî.
Bye! [Doom Metal / Gothic Music]
Mike. [Formula 1 Samara]
... Âåðíè ìíå ìîþ garmonbozia (pain and sorrow) *email:nelescon@samaramail.ru*
--- Jedem Das Seine/386 1.0.0+(asa) (GNU version 2 release)
* Origin: Computer Brains Station: 00:00-06:00 42-2735 (2:5057/44)
— RU.COMPRESS
From : Bulat Ziganshin 2:5093/28.26 27 Sep 99 14:08:54
To : Dimas Gr
Subj : Ïðåäåë êîìïðåññèè -- ÷àñòü âòîðàÿ
* Crossposted in RU.COMPRESS
Hello Dimas!
Monday September 27 1999, Dimas Gr writes to Sergey Moskovchenko:
DG> Ìîæíî ñæàòü ôàéë íèæå òåîpåòè÷åñêîãî ïpåäåëà
Òåîðåòè÷åñêèé ïðåäåë - 100%. Hå áîëüøå è íå ìåíüøå :)
DG> - íàïpèìåp pàp
DG> èñïîëüçóåò ìóëüòèìåäèéíîå ñæàòèå, óâåëè÷èâàåò ïpîöåíò ñæàòèÿ (ïpèìåp:
DG> wav, zip:800kb, rar:500kb). Ýòî ìîå ïîíèìàíèå òîãî, ÷òî ñêàçàë B.Z.
DG> (ïpè ó÷èòûâàíèè ïpîöåíòà ñæàòèÿ íàäî ó÷èòûâàòü åùå è àpõèâåp,
DG> ïpîöåññîp èòä).
Âîò-âîò. Äëèíó àðõèâàòîðà òû åùå ìîæåøü ó÷åñòü, à âîò îáúåêòèâíî îöåíèòü ñëîæ
íîñòü ïðîöåññîðà... ;)
Bulat, mailto:bulatz@fort.tatarstan.ru, ICQ 15872722
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: Windows 2000: ìû äîáàâèëè 1905 íîâûõ ãëþêîâ! (2:5093/28.26)
— RU.COMPRESS
From : Dimas Gr 2:469/117.6 27 Sep 99 15:03:51
To : Sergey Moskovchenko
Subj : Ïðåäåë êîìïðåññèè -- ÷àñòü âòîðàÿ
Hell o , Sergey !
SM> Âîáùåì ÿ òóò íàêàòàë ïðîãðàìêó, êîòîðàÿ ãåíåðèðóåò ôàéë ñ çàäàííûì
SM> êîëè÷åñòâîì èçáûòî÷íîé èíôîðìàöèè, îò 0 äî 100%, ïðè÷åì èçáûòî÷íîñòü
SM> ñîäåðæèòñÿ â ïîñëåäíèõ áèòàõ 8 - áèòíîé ïîñëåäîâàòåëüíîñòè äàííûõ. ß ñäåëàë
SM> ýòîé ïðîãðàìêîé ôàéë 100 Êá ñ èçáûòî÷íîñòüþ 75% (òåîðåòè÷åñêèé
SM> ïðåäåë ñæàòèÿ ñîîòâåòñòâåííî 25%) è ïîëó÷èë íà íåì òàêèå ðåçóëüòàòû:
Äîïóñòèì, åñòü òàêîé àpõèâàòîp, êîòîpûé çíàåò àëãîpèòì, ïî êîòîpîìó òû
ãåíåpèpîâàë ôàéë. Ñëåäîâàòåëüíî, îí ìîæåò óæàòü ôàéë åùå ñèëüíåå.
Äîïóñòèì, òû ãåíåpèë ôàéë random'îì â åãî îäíîé èç âàpèàöèé (ñì.íèæå).
Çíàÿ ïåpâîå çíà÷åíèå random'à ìîæíî ñãåíåpèòü âåñü ôàéë. Òî åñòü â äàííîì
ñëó÷àå ìû 'óæàëè' ôàéë äî 2-4 áàéò.
ß ïpî òàêîé random: rnd_new=f(rnd_old), ïpè÷åì ôóíêöèÿ íå ìåíÿåò ñâîåãî âèäà,
è äëÿ îäèíàêîâûõ çíà÷åíèé àpãóìåíòà âñåãäà äàåò îäèíàêîâîå çíà÷åíèå (ò.å. íå
ïpèâÿçàíà ê òàéìåpó)
Îïèñàë êpèâî, íî ïîéìè....
Ìîæíî ñæàòü ôàéë íèæå òåîpåòè÷åñêîãî ïpåäåëà - íàïpèìåp pàp èñïîëüçóåò
ìóëüòèìåäèéíîå ñæàòèå, óâåëè÷èâàåò ïpîöåíò ñæàòèÿ (ïpèìåp: wav, zip:800kb,
rar:500kb).
Ýòî ìîå ïîíèìàíèå òîãî, ÷òî ñêàçàë B.Z. (ïpè ó÷èòûâàíèè ïpîöåíòà ñæàòèÿ
íàäî ó÷èòûâàòü åùå è àpõèâåp, ïpîöåññîp èòä).
Dimas, aka gds/FH
--- Welcome to NICE.SOURCES !
* Origin: In hack we trust. (2:469/117.6)
— RU.COMPRESS
From : Dmitry Belash 2:5030/856.12 27 Sep 99 20:30:53
To : Sergey Moskovchenko
Subj : Ïðåäåë êîìïðåññèè -- ÷àñòü âòîðàÿ
¦_¦*
¦ ¦¦ Sergey!
26 Ñåí 99 ã. Hà ÷àñàõ 18:44. È ïèøåò Sergey Moskovchenko ê Dmitry Belash:
DB>> Ýòî íå ñîâñåì ïðàâèëüíî èìõî. Äëÿ òâîèõ "75%" èçáûòî÷íîñòè â
DB>> êàæäîì áàéòå ïîñëåäíèå 6 áèò - íóëè, àðõèâàòîð ýòî ïîéìåò, è äëÿ
DB>> áîëüøèõ ôàéëîâ
SM> Îí êîíå÷íî ýòî íå "ïîéìåò", íî òàê îíî è ïîëó÷åòñÿ â èòîãå, ÷åðåç
SM> ïîèñê ïîñëåäîâàòåëüíîñòåé, êðàòíûõ 8 áèòàì.
DB>> ïîëó÷èøü ñæàòèå ïî÷òè â òî÷íîñòè íà 75%. Çàìåòü: äëÿ ýòîãî íå
DB>> íóæíî ñëîæíûõ àëãîðèòìîâ, äîñòàòî÷íî ïðîñòî áðàòü îò êàæäîãî áàéòà
DB>> 2 ïåðâûõ áèòà è òóïî ïåðåïñûâàòü èõ â âûõîäíîé ôàéë. Â äàííîì
DB>> ñëó÷àå
SM> Òàêèõ àëãîðèòìîâ ñæàòèÿ IMHO íåò, ñëèøêîì óæ âñå ïðîñòî, õîòÿ â äàííîì
SM> ñëó÷àå îíè áûëè áû ñàìûìè îïòèìàëüíûìè.
Îáû÷íûé õàôôìåí. Âñåãî ÷åòûðå ðàçëè÷íûõ ñèìâîëà, ïî äâà áèòà íà ñèìâîë. Òîò æå
ýôôåêò.
DB>> öåëåñîîáðàçíåå (IMHO) áûëî áû ãåíåðèðîâàòü
DB>> ïîñëåäîâàòåëüíîñòü, â êîòîðîé _â_ñðåäíåì_ íóëåé â 3 ðàçà áîëüøå,
DB>> ÷åì åäèíèö (èëè íàîáîðîò). Õîòÿ è ýòî áóäåò íå ñîâñåì 75% (ó ìåíÿ
DB>> íà ôîðìóëû ñêëåðîç, ìîæ êòî íàïèøåò).
SM> Ðåçóëüòàòû òàì ïîëó÷àþòñÿ óæå íå òàêèå êðàñèâûå - ïðè 75% èçáûòî÷íîñòè
SM> ôàéë íå æìåìñÿ íè÷åì,
Ñòðàííî. Àðèôìåòè÷åñêèé êîäåð äîëæåí ñæàòü ïî êðàéíåé ìåðå ïðîöåíòîâ íà 20. Êñò
àòè, ÿ íåìíîãî îøèáñÿ: îäíà åäèíèöà íà òðè íóëÿ - ýòî óæå äàëåêî íå 75% èçáûòè÷
íîñòè.
DB>> Õî÷ó òåáÿ îãîð÷èòü - òåîðåòè÷åñêèé ïðåäåë ñæàòèÿ (ýíòðîïèÿ) â
DB>> äàííîì ñëó÷àå ðàâíà ìèíèìàëüíîìó ðàçìåðó àãëîðèòìà, ïîðîæäàþùåãî
DB>> ïîñëåäîâàòåëüíîñòü, ò.å. ãîðàçäî ìåíüøå äëèíû òâîåé ïðîãðàììû
DB>> (õîòÿ ðàçìåð àëãîðèòìà íåëüçÿ âûðàçèòü â áàéòàõ :).
SM> Ýòî âñå òåîðèÿ, îíà êîíå÷íî ñ îäíîé ñòîðîíû ïðàâà - ñòîáèòíûì êîäîì
SM> äåìêè ìîæíî íàðèñîâàòü áåñêîíå÷íî ñëîæíóþ ôðàêòàëüíóþ êàðòèíêó, íî êàê
SM> ñæàòü ëþáîé òåêñò èëè "øóì" â áåñêîíå÷íî ìàëûé êîä?
Ìû ãîâîðèëè î òåîðåòè÷åñêîì ïðåäåëå ñæàòèÿ äàííûõ, ãåíåðèðóåìûõ òâîåé ïðîãîé. _
Øóì_ íåëüçÿ _òàê_ ñæàòü äàæå òåîðåòè÷åñêè, à âîò _"øóì"_ (ïñåâäîñëó÷àéíóþ ïîñëå
äîâàòåëüíîñòü) - ìîæíî, íî îïÿòü-òàêè ëèøü â òåîðèè...
SM> Ñîæìèòå ìíå êòî - íèáóäü ëþáîé õóäîæåñòâåííûé òåêñò áåç ïîòåðü â 1000
SM> ðàç :) Hàñ÷åò íàõîæäåíèÿ ñàáæà -- äëÿ òåêñòîâèêîâ (äà è äëÿ äðóãèõ
SM> íåñëîæíûõ äàííûõ) IMHO ìîæíî íàõîäèòü ïðèìåðíî ïî ñæàòèþ ëó÷øèì
SM> àëãîðèòìîì ïî ñæàòèþ òåêñòîâ.
Hàñ÷åò òåêñòîâ - òóò åñòü íåêîòîðûå ñëîæíîñòè. Ìîæíî ïðîñòî ñæàòü òåêñò àðõèâàò
îðîì. Hî âåäü â ñâÿçíîì òåêñòå òû ìîæåøü (ñàì, à íå ïðîãðàììíî) ñîêðàòèòü ïî÷òè
êàæäîå ñëîâî êàê ìèíèìóì â äâà ðàçà, à ïîòîì ïîëíîñòüþ âîññòàíîâèòü áåç ïîòåðü
. È òàêîé ñîêðàùåííûé òåêñò ìîæíî ñæàòü àðõèâàòîðîì, ïðè ýòîì àðõèâ ïîëó÷èòñÿ ñ
óùåñòâåííî ìåíüøå, ÷åì ïðè ñæàòèè îðèãèíàëüíîãî òåêñòà. Òàê ÷òî òåêñòû èìåþò "ä
îïîëíèòåëüíóþ" èçáûòî÷íîñòü (ìîé ïðèìåð èëëþñòðèðóåò òîëüêî åå ÷àñòü), ê ñîæàëå
íèþ, ïðàêòè÷åñêè íåäîñòóïíóþ ñîâðåìåííûì àðõèâàòîðàì, íå ó÷èòûâàþùèì ëåêñèêîãðà
ôè÷åñêóþ ñïåöèôèêó (âî ñêàçàíóë-òî) ýòîãî òèïà äàííûõ.
Òàê ÷òî íàñ÷åò 1000 ðàç - íå ãàðàíòèðóþ, à ãäå-òî äî 1.5-1.8 áèò íà ñèìâîë - ðå
àëüíî.
ÇÛ2All. Ïîïðîâüòå ìåíÿ, ãäå ÷òî íå òàê.
Bye!
Dmitry.
--- @c:\windows\win386.swp
* Origin: xxxxxxns smopu!M (2:5030/856.12)
— RU.COMPRESS
From : Dmitry Subbotin 2:5020/530.18 28 Sep 99 00:44:32
To : Bulat Ziganshin
Subj : petite ðàñïàêîâàòü íóæíî
Hi, Bulat!
"Bulat Ziganshin" sendTo: "Dimas Gr" when: [25 Sep 99] msg:
BZ> Óâû, pd 1.5 íå ðàñïàêîâûâàåò petite 2.0. Òàê ìíå ñêàçàëè.
Ãì. Âîîáùå ñêðèïò äëÿ petite 2.0 â íåì åñòü.
È äàæå åñëè ýòîò ñêðèïò íå ðàáîòàåò, ìîæíî íàïèñàòü ñâîé. ;)
taste you later,
morf
--- GoldED 2.50+
* Origin: morf@softhome.net (2:5020/530.18)
— RU.COMPRESS
From : Alex Goldberg 2:468/57 28 Sep 99 11:31:04
To : Sergey Moskovchenko
Subj : Re: Ïðåäåë êîìïðåññèè -- ÷àñòü âòîðàÿ
Good morning, Sergey!
Saturday September 25 1999 21:02, Sergey Moskovchenko wrote to All:
SM> áèòàõ 8 - áèòíîé ïîñëåäîâàòåëüíîñòè äàííûõ. ß ñäåëàë ýòîé ïðîãðàìêîé
SM> ôàéë 100 Êá ñ èçáûòî÷íîñòüþ 75% (òåîðåòè÷åñêèé ïðåäåë ñæàòèÿ
SM> ñîîòâåòñòâåííî 25%) è ïîëó÷èë íà íåì òàêèå ðåçóëüòàòû:
SM> type size ds
SM> -+- 100 Êá ---
SM> ha 25,5 Êá 0,5%
SM> zip 29,6 Êá 4,6%
SM> arj 29,7 Êá 4,7%
SM> rar 31,1 Êá 6,1%
SM> èñõîäíûå äàííûå î÷åíü ñïåöèôè÷íû, íî âñåæå ïîëó÷àåòñÿ, ÷òî àðõèâàòîðû
SM> âûæèìàþò èç ýòîãî òèïà äàííûõ 99,5% ëèøíåé èíôîðìàöèè, ò.å. óëó÷øàòü
SM> òóò ïî÷òè íå÷åãî,
Êàê è ñëåäîâààëî îæèäàòü, äëÿ òàêèõ äàííûõ HA îêàçàëñÿ îäíèì èç ëó÷øèõ, õî
òÿ åãî ïpåâçîøåë (÷òî âïîëíå çàêîíîìåpíî) êîäåp PPMD.
---- 100000 ---
ha 25565 0.565%
ppmd 25347 0.347%
Åñëè ó÷åñòü, ÷òî â àpõèâå õpàíèòñÿ ïîìèìî êîäèpîâàííîãî ôàéëà åùå è åãî èì
ÿ, êîíòpîëüíàÿ ñóììà è ñëóæåáíàÿ èíôîpìàöèÿ, òî îòêëîíåíèå îò "èäåàëà" ñîñòàâèò
~0.2%
SM> à êàê îáñòîÿò äåëà ñ äðóãèìè òèïàìè äàííûõ ìîæåò êòî
SM> - íèáóäü ñêàçàòü?
Âñå çàâèñèò îò èçáûòî÷íîñòè èíôîpìàöèè, ïpè÷åì ïpîÿâëÿåìîé äîñòàòî÷íî íåñò
àíäàpòíî. ÈÌÕÎ, òpþê E8/E9 ïîçâîëèë ïîâûñèòü êîìïpåññèþ EXE-ôàéëîâ çà ñ÷åò çíàí
èÿ èõ "îñîáåííîñòåé", íå èìåþùèõ îáùåãî ñ îáùåé òåîpèåé ñæàòèÿ èíôîpìàöèè.
Good luck ! Tuesday September 28 1999
Alex Goldberg.
---
* Origin: ---- HANNIBAL LTD STATION ---- (UA,Kherson FIDOnet 2:468/57)
— RU.COMPRESS
From : Viktor Ostashev 2:5020/1194 28 Sep 99 11:41:00
To : Dimas Gr
Subj : Ïpåäåë êîìïpåññèè -- ÷àñòü âòîpàÿ
Îòâåò íà ïèñüìî Dimas Gr (2:469/117.6) ê Sergey Moskovchenko
îò 27 ñåíòÿápÿ 1999 ã., 15:03
Hello Dimas!
DG> Ìîæíî ñæàòü ôàéë íèæå òåîpåòè÷åñêîãî ïpåäåëà
Âîò ýòî - íèêàê íåëüçÿ. Òyò âîïpîñ â äpyãîì - äëÿ ïpîèçâîëüíîãî âõîäíîãî
ïîòîêà ìû íå ìîæåì äîñòîâåpíî îïpåäåëèòü ýòîò ïpåäåë, íå èçy÷èâ ñòpyêòypû
ýòîãî ïîòîêà. È âñå òpyäíîñòè çàêëþ÷àþòñÿ èñêëþ÷èòåëüíî â ïpàâèëüíîñòè îïpå-
äåëåíèÿ ñâîéñòâ âõîäíîãî ïîòîêà.
DG> - íàïpèìåp pàp èñïîëüçyåò ìyëüòèìåäèéíîå ñæàòèå, yâåëè÷èâàåò ïpîöåíò
DG> ñæàòèÿ
Ýòî êàê pàç ïpèìåp èñïîëüçîâàíèÿ ñâåäåíèé î âõîäíîì ïîòîêå. ×òî òàêîå
ìyëüòèìåäèéíûé ôàéë - ýòî öåïî÷êè pàçíûõ áàéòîâ (èëè ñëîâ), pàçëè÷àþùèõñÿ
îäèí îò äpyãîãî íà íåáîëüøyþ è ÷àñòî ïîñòîÿííyþ âåëè÷èíy. È pàp â ýòîì ñëy÷àå
êîäèpyåò íå ñàìè çíà÷åíèÿ âõîäíîãî ïîòîêà, à èõ pàçíîñòü ñ ïpåäûäyùèì, èìåííî
èñïîëüçyÿ çíàíèå èëè ïpåäïîëîæåíèå î ñâîéñòâàõ âõîäíîãî ïîòîêà. È íèêàêîé òå-
îpåòè÷åñêèé ïpåäåë çäåñü íå ïpåâûøàåòñÿ.
Êñòàòè, òyò åñòü è åùå áîëåå ïîêàçàòåëüíûé ïpèìåp - áåpåì ôàéë, â êîòîpûé
çàïèñàíû ïî ïîpÿäêy âñå 16-áèòíûå ÷èñëà â èõ ìàøèííîì ïpåäñòàâëåíèè. Ñëîâàp-
íûå àëãîpèòìû òyò îòäûõàþò: ïîâòîpÿþùèõñÿ öåïî÷åê íåò. Âñÿêîå áàéòîâîå êîäè-
pîâàíèå - òîæå îòäûõàåò: âåpîÿòíîñòè âñåõ çíà÷åíèé áàéòà ïî÷òè îäèíàêîâû. Áå-
påì UltraCompressor - è îí ïpîñåêàåò, ÷òî y íàñ òàì ëåæàò äâyõáàéòîâûå ñëîâà
ïî ïîpÿäêy, â påçyëüòàòå ÷åãî 128-êèëîâûé ôàéë æìåòñÿ â ïàpy äåñÿòêîâ áàéò.
Ïpè÷åì â ýòîì ñëy÷àå, çíàÿ, êàê ïîëy÷åí ôàéë, ìû îòëè÷íî âèäèì, ÷òî èçáûòî÷-
íîñòü â ýòîì ôàéëå î÷åíü âåëèêà.
Ñ yâàæåíèåì -
Âèêòîp Îñòàøåâ
--- ** Phone: (095)337-5955 ** E-mail: v_ostashev@chat.ru **
* Origin: ¦¦ ÔÈÇÊÓËÜÒ-ÏÐÈÂÅÒ ¦¦ (2:5020/1194)
— RU.COMPRESS
From : Dmitry Belash 2:5030/856.12 28 Sep 99 12:00:50
To : Ivan Azmanoff
Subj : AIN
¦_¦*
¦ ¦¦ Ivan!
27 Ñåí 99 ã. Hà ÷àñàõ 09:30. È ïèøåò Ivan Azmanoff ê All:
IA> Ïèïëû! Ñêàæèòå ñàáæ ïîíîâåå åùå ñyùåñòâyåò? Èëè project
IA> closed? Ó ìåíÿ âpîäå áûë 232.
Hîâåå íå âèäåë :(
IA> Æìåò î÷åíü äàæå áûñòpî. Õîòÿ ïî ñòåïåíè êîìïpåññèè yæå ñèëüíî
IA> îòñòàåò.
Îí æìåò ïî÷òè êàê rar, íà íåêîòîðûõ äàííûõ äàæå ëó÷øå, à åùå ëó÷øå, êîãäà ìíîãî
íåáîëüøèõ îäíîòèïíûõ ôàéëîâ. À íàñ÷åò ñêîðîñòè - ýòî òî÷íî.
Bye!
Dmitry.
--- @c:\windows\win386.swp
* Origin: xxxxxxns smopu!M (2:5030/856.12)
— RU.COMPRESS
From : Dmitry Belash 2:5030/856.12 28 Sep 99 12:05:35
To : Dimas Gr
Subj : Ïðåäåë êîìïðåññèè -- ÷àñòü âòîðàÿ
¦_¦*
¦ ¦¦ Dimas!
27 Ñåí 99 ã. Hà ÷àñàõ 15:03. È ïèøåò Dimas Gr ê Sergey Moskovchenko:
DG> Ìîæíî ñæàòü ôàéë íèæå òåîpåòè÷åñêîãî ïpåäåëà - íàïpèìåp pàp
DG> èñïîëüçóåò ìóëüòèìåäèéíîå ñæàòèå, óâåëè÷èâàåò ïpîöåíò ñæàòèÿ (ïpèìåp:
DG> wav, zip:800kb, rar:500kb).
Ìóëüòèìåäèéíîå ñæàòèå - ýòî afaik ïðîñòî ñæàòèå ñ ó÷åòîì îñîáåííîñòåé ýòîãî (ìó
ëüòèìåäèéíîãî) òèïà äàííûõ, è íèêàêèì ñæàòèåì íèæå òåîðåòè÷åñêîãî ïðåäåëà òóò í
å ïàõíåò...
Bye!
Dmitry.
--- @c:\windows\win386.swp
* Origin: xxxxxxns smopu!M (2:5030/856.12)
— RU.COMPRESS
From : Daniel Smelov 2:5030/306.37 28 Sep 99 12:09:00
To : Bulat Ziganshin
Subj : small decompression routine
Bulat, Bulat, Bulat... ïðèâû÷íî îòîçâàëàñü ýõà...
Date: [18 Sep 99] Time: [22:29]
Sender: [Bulat Ziganshin] Receiver: [Daniel Smelov]
Message subject: [small decompression routine]
DS>> íàïèñàííûé íà àññåìáëåpå (16-bit) + äàííûå. Ñåé÷àñ èñïîëüçóåòñÿ
DS>> lzss, âûäpàííûé èç binres'a, íî õîòåëîñü áû ÷åãî-òî áîëåå
DS>> ìîùíîãî.
BZ> lzss çäåñü áëèçîê ê îïòèìóìó.
Óæå ïîíÿë. Hî äóìàþ ïîêîâûpÿòü àpèôìåòè÷åñêîå ñæàòèå, ïpàâäà, íå óâåpåí, ÷òî êî
ä pàñïàêîâùèêà óäàñòñÿ äîâåñòè äî æåëàåìîãî pàçìåpà.
BZ> Ñëåäóþùèé øàã - ïîñìîòðåòü êîä,
BZ> èñïîëüçóåìûé exe-ïàêåðàìè. Âåðîÿòíî, compack, upx, wwpack.
Óãó. Hî êîâûpÿòü ëåíü, äà è íåò îñîáî âpåìåíè.
See you later, Bulat...
... Yer momma's so fat she got her own area code.
--- MultiEdit v7.00eP-386
* Origin: Stimoroidal. (2:5030/306.37)
— RU.COMPRESS
From : Daniel Smelov 2:5030/306.37 28 Sep 99 12:12:00
To : Andrew Aksyonoff
Subj : small decompression routine
Andrew, Andrew, Andrew... ïðèâû÷íî îòîçâàëàñü ýõà...
Date: [18 Sep 99] Time: [17:00]
Sender: [Andrew Aksyonoff] Receiver: [Daniel Smelov]
Message subject: [small decompression routine]
AA> LZ + Huffman/aryhmetic, ïðè æåëàíèè, ðåàëèçîâûâàåòñÿ äîâîëüíî
AA> èçÿùíî â 95 è 130 áàéò ñîîòâåòñòâåííî, ÷åìó äîêàçàòåëüñòâîì ñëóæàò
AA> Mesha è Omniscent. :-)
Óæå ñìîòpåë. Ïîñìîòpþ åùå pàç. :)
AA> à óïàêîâùèêè ïðèøëîñü íàïèñàòü. Òîðìîçíûå è ãëþ÷íûå, íî âåäü
AA> ðàáîòàþò. :-)
×åpåç ïåíü-êîëîäó. :)
DS>> Ïpèâåòñòâóþòñÿ ëþáûå íàìåêè - url, êíèãè, ...
AA> Hà http://www.enlight.ru/faq3d åñòü ññûëêà íà èñõîäíèêè IsoWorld,
AA> òàê âîò òàì óïàêîâùèê ïðèëàãàåòñÿ è 95/102-byte stub òîæå.
Pàñïàêîâùèêè òîæå ïpèäåòñÿ ïpàâèòü - ìåíÿ íå îñîáî óñòpàèâàåò äåëàòü ïpè
êàæäîé êîìïèëÿöèè áèíàpíèêà ñïëèòòèíã ñòàáà è ìîåãî êîäà. Ïpîùå äèçàññåìáëèòü
è âñòàâèòü ê ñåáå.
See you later, Andrew...
... 2B OR NOT 2B = FF
--- MultiEdit v7.00eP-386
* Origin: Stimoroidal. (2:5030/306.37)
— RU.COMPRESS
From : Bulat Ziganshin 2:5093/28.26 28 Sep 99 17:14:59
To : Alex Goldberg
Subj : Ïðåäåë êîìïðåññèè -- ÷àñòü âòîðàÿ
* Crossposted in RU.COMPRESS
Hello Alex!
Tuesday September 28 1999, Alex Goldberg writes to Sergey Moskovchenko:
AG> äîñòàòî÷íî íåñòàíäàpòíî. ÈÌÕÎ, òpþê E8/E9 ïîçâîëèë ïîâûñèòü êîìïpåññèþ
AG> EXE-ôàéëîâ çà ñ÷åò çíàíèÿ èõ "îñîáåííîñòåé", íå èìåþùèõ îáùåãî ñ îáùåé
AG> òåîpèåé ñæàòèÿ èíôîpìàöèè.
Î, âñëåä çà âå÷íûì äâèãàòåëåì ïîÿâèëàñü è "îáùàÿ òåîðèÿ"... :) Ðåáÿòà, âàñ ï
ðîñòî ñìåøíî ñëóøàòü, ïåðåñòàíüòå ïàëüöåì â íåáå ìàõàòü, à? Õîòü ôàê comp.compr
ession ïî÷èòàéòå, òàì èìåííî äëÿ âàñ âñå ðàñæåâàíî.
Bulat, mailto:bulatz@fort.tatarstan.ru, ICQ 15872722
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: Windows 2000: ìû äîáàâèëè 1905 íîâûõ ãëþêîâ! (2:5093/28.26)
— RU.COMPRESS
From : Vadim Yoockin 2:5020/1042.50 28 Sep 99 19:58:05
To : All
Subj : Compressors Comparison Tests 4. Update 1.
Ïpèâåòñòâóþ, All!
Ðåçóëüòàòû íîâîé áåòû íà òåñòàõ. Rar32 ïîêàçàë òàêîå
æå ñæàòèå, íî áûë ÷óòü ìåäëåííåå íà âñåõ áåç èñêëþ÷åíèÿ
òåñòàõ, è ïîòîìó ïðîïóùåí.
===================== Hà÷àëî - rar.txt =====================
Russian Text (stand.txt) 1,639,139
======================================================
rar/win 2.60b5 m4 604,925 43.19 1.77
rar/win 2.60b5 m5 603,770 51.81 1.82
rar/win 2.60b5 m5 md1024 575,339 1:19.59 1.82
rar/win 2.60b5 m5 mm mde 575,339 1:20.64 1.77
C-sources (Watcom 10.0) 1,890,501
======================================================
rar/win 2.60b5 m4 311,162 24.12 1.44
rar/win 2.60b5 m5 310,753 31.36 1.49
rar/win 2.60b5 m5 md1024 286,789 43.34 1.39
rar/win 2.60b5 m5 mm mde 286,789 44.33 1.38
EXE (wcc386.exe WC 10.0) 536,624
======================================================
rar/win 2.60b5 m4 299,287 7.84 0.83
rar/win 2.60b5 m5 299,217 8.69 0.89
rar/win 2.60b5 m5 md1024 298,994 8.87 0.83
rar/win 2.60b5 m5 mm mde 296,624 9.19 0.83
Dictionary (ca.fdb) 627,761 (from foliant)
======================================================
rar/win 2.60b5 m4 203,446 11.09 0.94
rar/win 2.60b5 m5 203,429 12.66 0.89
rar/win 2.60b5 m5 md1024 204,020 12.77 0.89
rar/win 2.60b5 m5 mm mde 204,020 13.04 0.89
Fileware.doc (WinWord file) 427,520
======================================================
rar/win 2.60b5 m4 119,866 3.15 0.62
rar/win 2.60b5 m5 119,815 3.42 0.50
rar/win 2.60b5 m5 md1024 119,338 3.69 0.56
rar/win 2.60b5 m5 mm mde 119,338 3.86 0.56
OS2.INI 594,821
======================================================
rar/win 2.60b5 m4 99,214 6.22 0.67
rar/win 2.60b5 m5 99,122 8.75 0.67
rar/win 2.60b5 m5 md1024 97,953 7.99 0.62
rar/win 2.60b5 m5 mm mde 97,953 8.36 0.61
Samples.xls 445,440
======================================================
rar/win 2.60b5 m4 75,118 4.00 0.51
rar/win 2.60b5 m5 74,832 4.79 0.50
rar/win 2.60b5 m5 md1024 74,751 4.74 0.50
rar/win 2.60b5 m5 mm mde 74,210 4.96 0.51 =====================
Êîíåö - rar.txt =====================
Âñåãî äîáðîãî. Vadim Yoockin
... A Smith and Wesson beats four aces.
--- Ñòàpûé Äåä ñòîèìîñòüþ 3.00.Alpha4 äîïëàòà â ÑÊÂ UNREG
* Origin: yoockinv@mtu-net.ru,yoockinv@mail.ru,ICQ:44536013 (2:5020/1042.50)
— RU.COMPRESS
From : Vadim Yoockin 2:5020/1042.50 28 Sep 99 20:21:25
To : Alex Goldberg
Subj : Re: Ïðåäåë êîìïðåññèè -- ÷àñòü âòîðàÿ
Ïpèâåòñòâóþ, Alex!
28 Sep 99, Alex Goldberg ïèñàë ê Sergey Moskovchenko:
AG> Êàê è ñëåäîâààëî îæèäàòü, äëÿ òàêèõ äàííûõ HA îêàçàëñÿ îäíèì èç
AG> ëó÷øèõ, õîòÿ åãî ïpåâçîøåë (÷òî âïîëíå çàêîíîìåpíî) êîäåp PPMD.
AG> ---- 100000 ---
AG> ha 25565 0.565%
AG> ppmd 25347 0.347%
Hàøëè, íà ÷åì êîìïðåññîðû ñðàâíèâàòü, ïðàâî :) ßñíî, ÷òî ïðîñòåéøèé
àðèôìåòèê áóäåò ïîêàçûâàòü ëó÷øèå ðåçóëüòàòû. Âîò:
rkuc -o0 25060
Âñåãî äîáðîãî. Vadim Yoockin
... A Smith and Wesson beats four aces.
--- Ñòàpûé Äåä ñòîèìîñòüþ 3.00.Alpha4 äîïëàòà â ÑÊÂ UNREG
* Origin: yoockinv@mtu-net.ru,yoockinv@mail.ru,ICQ:44536013 (2:5020/1042.50)
— RU.COMPRESS
From : Vadim Yoockin 2:5020/1042.50 28 Sep 99 20:30:20
To : All
Subj : Compressors comparison tests 4. [4/8]
Ïpèâåòñòâóþ, All!
 òåñòû âêðàëàñü îøèáêà â êëàññèôèêàöèè ìåòîäîâ ñæàòèÿ.
Âîò èñïðàâëåííûé ôðàãìåíò. Ïðîøó ïðîùåíèÿ çà äåçèíôîðìàöèþ.
BMP (exJPG) 906,354
======================================================
* bmf 1.0 -F4-S 201,804 20.18 14.25 PPM
bmf 1.0 -F4-Q9-S 201,804 1:23.21 14.25 PPM
* bmf 0.5 -F4-S 202,620 18.92 13.70 PPM
bmf 0.5 -F4-Q9-S 202,620 1:19.52 13.64 PPM
* bmf 0.4 -F4-S 212,632 17.82 11.17 PPM
bmf 0.5 -F4-Q9 232,676 39.37 1.93 ZRLE+Huf
bmf 1.0 -F4-Q9 233,148 39.54 1.93 ZRLE+Huf
* bmf 0.5 -F4 235,436 9.37 1.82 ZRLE+Huf
bmf 0.4 -F4 235,708 10.49 1.82 ZRLE+Huf
bmf 1.0 -F4 235,788 9.54 1.76 ZRLE+Huf
bmf 0.3 -F4 236,252 9.51 1.94 ZRLE+Huf
* bmf 0.21 -F4 244,536 8.30 1.77 ZRLE+Huf
Âñåãî äîáðîãî. Vadim Yoockin
... A Smith and Wesson beats four aces.
--- Ñòàpûé Äåä ñòîèìîñòüþ 3.00.Alpha4 äîïëàòà â ÑÊÂ UNREG
* Origin: yoockinv@mtu-net.ru,yoockinv@mail.ru,ICQ:44536013 (2:5020/1042.50)
— RU.COMPRESS
From : Sergey Moskovchenko 2:5037/9.36 28 Sep 99 22:05:01
To : Dmitry Belash
Subj : Ïðåäåë êîìïðåññèè -- ÷àñòü âòîðàÿ
Âîò ÷òî ðåøèë îòâåòèòü Sergey íà ïèñüìî êîòîðîå íàïèñàë Dmitry Belash:
Hello Dmitry!
DB>> öåëåñîîáðàçíåå (IMHO) áûëî áû ãåíåðèðîâàòü
DB>> ïîñëåäîâàòåëüíîñòü, â êîòîðîé _â_ñðåäíåì_ íóëåé â 3 ðàçà áîëüøå,
DB>> ÷åì åäèíèö (èëè íàîáîðîò). Õîòÿ è ýòî áóäåò íå ñîâñåì 75% (ó ìåíÿ
DB>> íà ôîðìóëû ñêëåðîç, ìîæ êòî íàïèøåò).
SM> Ðåçóëüòàòû òàì ïîëó÷àþòñÿ óæå íå òàêèå êðàñèâûå - ïðè 75%
SM> èçáûòî÷íîñòè ôàéë íå æìåìñÿ íè÷åì,
ß æàë zip - 88%; arj - 88%; ha - 91%; rar - 82%;
DB> Ñòðàííî. Àðèôìåòè÷åñêèé êîäåð äîëæåí ñæàòü ïî êðàéíåé ìåðå ïðîöåíòîâ íà
DB> 20. Êñòàòè, ÿ íåìíîãî îøèáñÿ: îäíà åäèíèöà íà òðè íóëÿ - ýòî óæå äàëåêî
DB> íå 75% èçáûòè÷íîñòè.
DB>
DB>> Õî÷ó òåáÿ îãîð÷èòü - òåîðåòè÷åñêèé ïðåäåë ñæàòèÿ (ýíòðîïèÿ) â
DB>> äàííîì ñëó÷àå ðàâíà ìèíèìàëüíîìó ðàçìåðó àãëîðèòìà, ïîðîæäàþùåãî
DB>> ïîñëåäîâàòåëüíîñòü, ò.å. ãîðàçäî ìåíüøå äëèíû òâîåé ïðîãðàììû
DB>> (õîòÿ ðàçìåð àëãîðèòìà íåëüçÿ âûðàçèòü â áàéòàõ :).
SM> Ýòî âñå òåîðèÿ, îíà êîíå÷íî ñ îäíîé ñòîðîíû ïðàâà - ñòîáèòíûì êîäîì
SM> äåìêè ìîæíî íàðèñîâàòü áåñêîíå÷íî ñëîæíóþ ôðàêòàëüíóþ êàðòèíêó, íî
SM> êàê ñæàòü ëþáîé òåêñò èëè "øóì" â áåñêîíå÷íî ìàëûé êîä?
DB> Ìû ãîâîðèëè î òåîðåòè÷åñêîì ïðåäåëå ñæàòèÿ äàííûõ, ãåíåðèðóåìûõ òâîåé
DB> ïðîãîé. _Øóì_ íåëüçÿ _òàê_ ñæàòü äàæå òåîðåòè÷åñêè, à âîò _"øóì"_
DB> (ïñåâäîñëó÷àéíóþ ïîñëåäîâàòåëüíîñòü) - ìîæíî, íî îïÿòü-òàêè ëèøü â
DB> òåîðèè...
Ïî÷åìó â òåîðèè -- åñëè èçâåñòåí àëãîðèòì ãåíåðàöèè ïñåâäîøóìà? Êàê â ñëó÷àå ñ
ìîåé ïðîãîé.
SM> Ñîæìèòå ìíå êòî - íèáóäü ëþáîé õóäîæåñòâåííûé òåêñò áåç ïîòåðü â
SM> 1000 ðàç :) Hàñ÷åò íàõîæäåíèÿ ñàáæà -- äëÿ òåêñòîâèêîâ (äà è äëÿ
SM> äðóãèõ íåñëîæíûõ äàííûõ) IMHO ìîæíî íàõîäèòü ïðèìåðíî ïî ñæàòèþ
SM> ëó÷øèì àëãîðèòìîì ïî ñæàòèþ òåêñòîâ.
DB> Hàñ÷åò òåêñòîâ - òóò åñòü íåêîòîðûå ñëîæíîñòè. Ìîæíî ïðîñòî ñæàòü òåêñò
DB> àðõèâàòîðîì. Hî âåäü â ñâÿçíîì òåêñòå òû ìîæåøü (ñàì, à íå ïðîãðàììíî)
DB> ñîêðàòèòü ïî÷òè êàæäîå ñëîâî êàê ìèíèìóì â äâà ðàçà, à ïîòîì ïîëíîñòüþ
DB> âîññòàíîâèòü áåç ïîòåðü. È òàêîé ñîêðàùåííûé òåêñò ìîæíî ñæàòü
DB> àðõèâàòîðîì, ïðè ýòîì àðõèâ ïîëó÷èòñÿ ñóùåñòâåííî ìåíüøå, ÷åì ïðè ñæàòèè
DB> îðèãèíàëüíîãî òåêñòà. Òàê ÷òî òåêñòû èìåþò "äîïîëíèòåëüíóþ" èçáûòî÷íîñòü
DB> (ìîé ïðèìåð èëëþñòðèðóåò òîëüêî åå ÷àñòü), ê
DB> ñîæàëåíèþ, ïðàêòè÷åñêè íåäîñòóïíóþ ñîâðåìåííûì àðõèâàòîðàì, íå
DB> ó÷èòûâàþùèì ëåêñèêîãðàôè÷åñêóþ ñïåöèôèêó (âî ñêàçàíóë-òî) ýòîãî òèïà
DB> äàííûõ. Òàê ÷òî íàñ÷åò 1000 ðàç - íå ãàðàíòèðóþ, à ãäå-òî äî 1.5-1.8 áèò
DB> íà ñèìâîë - ðåàëüíî.
Äîïóñòåì â òåêñòå ÷åðåç ñëîâî âñòðå÷àåòñÿ ôðàçà "Êîîôèöèåíò ïîëåçíîãî äåéñòâèÿ"
ìû åãî ïðåâðàùàåì â "ÊÏÄ" ðàçâå ýòî òàê ñèëüíî îòðàçèòñÿ íà àðõèâå? IMHO àðõèâ
àòîð ìîæåò è òî è äðóãîå çàìèòü 2-3 áèòàìè êîäà â àðõèâå è âñå. Åäèíñòâåííîå ÷ò
î â ïåðâîì ñëó÷àå çàãîëîâîê àðõèâà áóäåò íåìíîãî áîëüøå.
Õîòÿ ÿ òóò ïîýêñïåðèìåíòèðîâàë ñ ôàéëàìè âçÿë 2 ôàéëà ïî 250 îäèíàêîâûõ ñòîð÷åê
, îäèí áîëüøå äðóãîãî â 17 ðàç (15Ê è 0.8Ê), ïîñëå àðõèâàöèè ha ðàçíèöà ìåæäó
íèìè óæå 3 ðàçà (37 è 121 áàéò â àðõèâå), arj, rar, zip 2 ðàçà (íî ðåçóëüòàò ó
íèõ õóæå), ò.å. ðàçíèöà â äëèííå ïðèìåðíî ðàâíà 80 áàéòàì è ýòî ïðèìåðíî ñîîòâå
òñòâóåò ðàçíèöå â äëèííå "ôðàç" â èñõîäíûõ ôàéëàõ.  èòîãå ïîëó÷àåòñÿ ÷òî óìåíü
øåíèå äëèííû ÷àñòî èñïîëüçóåìûõ "ñëîâ" ïî÷òè íè÷åãî íå äàåò â àðõèâå.
Âñåãî íàèëó÷øåãî!
Ñ óâàæåíèåì Ñåðãåé.
---
* Origin: The truth is out there. (2:5037/9.36)
— RU.COMPRESS
From : Sergey Moskovchenko 2:5037/9.36 28 Sep 99 22:13:14
To : Dimas Gr
Subj : Ïðåäåë êîìïðåññèè -- ÷àñòü âòîðàÿ
Âîò ÷òî ðåøèë îòâåòèòü Sergey íà ïèñüìî êîòîðîå íàïèñàë Dimas Gr:
Hello Dimas!
SM> Âîáùåì ÿ òóò íàêàòàë ïðîãðàìêó, êîòîðàÿ ãåíåðèðóåò ôàéë ñ çàäàííûì
SM> êîëè÷åñòâîì èçáûòî÷íîé èíôîðìàöèè, îò 0 äî 100%, ïðè÷åì èçáûòî÷íîñòü
SM> ñîäåðæèòñÿ â ïîñëåäíèõ áèòàõ 8 - áèòíîé ïîñëåäîâàòåëüíîñòè äàííûõ. ß
SM> ñäåëàë ýòîé ïðîãðàìêîé ôàéë 100 Êá ñ èçáûòî÷íîñòüþ 75%
SM> (òåîðåòè÷åñêèé ïðåäåë ñæàòèÿ ñîîòâåòñòâåííî 25%) è ïîëó÷èë íà íåì
SM> òàêèå ðåçóëüòàòû:
DG> Äîïóñòèì, åñòü òàêîé àpõèâàòîp, êîòîpûé çíàåò àëãîpèòì, ïî êîòîpîìó òû
DG> ãåíåpèpîâàë ôàéë. Ñëåäîâàòåëüíî, îí ìîæåò óæàòü ôàéë åùå ñèëüíåå.
DG> Äîïóñòèì, òû ãåíåpèë ôàéë random'îì â åãî îäíîé èç âàpèàöèé (ñì.íèæå).
DG> Çíàÿ ïåpâîå çíà÷åíèå random'à ìîæíî ñãåíåpèòü âåñü ôàéë. Òî åñòü â äàííîì
DG> ñëó÷àå ìû 'óæàëè' ôàéë äî 2-4 áàéò.
DG> ß ïpî òàêîé random: rnd_new=f(rnd_old), ïpè÷åì ôóíêöèÿ íå ìåíÿåò ñâîåãî
DG> âèäà, è äëÿ îäèíàêîâûõ çíà÷åíèé àpãóìåíòà âñåãäà äàåò îäèíàêîâîå
DG> çíà÷åíèå (ò.å. íå ïpèâÿçàíà ê òàéìåpó)
DG> Îïèñàë êpèâî, íî ïîéìè....
Ýòî åñëè çàðàíåå èçâåñòåí àëãîðèòì ãåíåðàöèè ïîñëåäîâàòåëüíîñòè, à â òåêñòàõ/êà
ðòèíêàõ êàêîé ìåõàíèçì "ãåíåðàöèè" äàííûõ â ãîëîâå ó èõ ñîçäàòåëÿ? :)
DG> Ìîæíî ñæàòü ôàéë íèæå òåîpåòè÷åñêîãî ïpåäåëà - íàïpèìåp pàp èñïîëüçóåò
DG> ìóëüòèìåäèéíîå ñæàòèå, óâåëè÷èâàåò ïpîöåíò ñæàòèÿ (ïpèìåp: wav,
DG> zip:800kb, rar:500kb).
Ïðè èñõîäíîì ðàçìåðå 1000 Gb :)
DG> Ýòî ìîå ïîíèìàíèå òîãî, ÷òî ñêàçàë B.Z. (ïpè ó÷èòûâàíèè ïpîöåíòà ñæàòèÿ
DG> íàäî ó÷èòûâàòü åùå è àpõèâåp, ïpîöåññîp èòä).
Hå íàäî, ìû î âðåìåíè ñæàòèÿ ïîêà íå ãîâîðèì... Èíòåðåñóåò ñàáæ, íàñêîëüêî àëãî
ðèòìû àðõèâàòîðîâ ïîäîøëè ê òåîðåòè÷åñêîìó ìàêñèìàëüíîìó óïëîòíåíèþ îòâëå÷åííûõ
äàííûõ (òåêñòîâ, êàðòèíîê, çâóêà)
Âñåãî íàèëó÷øåãî!
Ñ óâàæåíèåì Ñåðãåé.
---
* Origin: The truth is out there. (2:5037/9.36)
— RU.COMPRESS
From : Sergey Moskovchenko 2:5037/9.36 28 Sep 99 22:18:23
To : Bulat Ziganshin
Subj : Ïðåäåë êîìïðåññèè -- ÷àñòü âòîðàÿ
Âîò ÷òî ðåøèë îòâåòèòü Sergey íà ïèñüìî êîòîðîå íàïèñàë Bulat Ziganshin:
Hello Bulat!
DG> - íàïpèìåp pàp
DG> èñïîëüçóåò ìóëüòèìåäèéíîå ñæàòèå, óâåëè÷èâàåò ïpîöåíò ñæàòèÿ
DG> (ïpèìåp: wav, zip:800kb, rar:500kb). Ýòî ìîå ïîíèìàíèå òîãî, ÷òî
DG> ñêàçàë B.Z. (ïpè ó÷èòûâàíèè ïpîöåíòà ñæàòèÿ íàäî ó÷èòûâàòü åùå è
DG> àpõèâåp, ïpîöåññîp èòä).
BZ>
BZ> Âîò-âîò. Äëèíó àðõèâàòîðà òû åùå ìîæåøü ó÷åñòü, à âîò îáúåêòèâíî
BZ> îöåíèòü ñëîæíîñòü ïðîöåññîðà... ;)
Ýòî íàâåðíîå ìååòñÿ ââèäó ÷òî ïðè 16,32 èëè 64 áèòíîì ïðöåññîðå ïðîãðàììà àðõèâ
àöèè áóäåò äëèíåå ÷åì íà 8 áèòíîì, è ñîîòâåòñòâåííî ñàìîðàçâîðà÷èâàþùèéñÿ àðõèâ
áóäåò íàìíîãî áîëüøå çàíèìàòü ìåñòà ;)
Âñåãî íàèëó÷øåãî!
Ñ óâàæåíèåì Ñåðãåé.
---
* Origin: The truth is out there. (2:5037/9.36)
— RU.COMPRESS
From : Sergey Moskovchenko 2:5037/9.36 28 Sep 99 22:29:44
To : Alex Goldberg
Subj : Re: Ïðåäåë êîìïðåññèè -- ÷àñòü âòîðàÿ
Âîò ÷òî ðåøèë îòâåòèòü Sergey íà ïèñüìî êîòîðîå íàïèñàë Alex Goldberg:
Hello Alex!
SM> áèòàõ 8 - áèòíîé ïîñëåäîâàòåëüíîñòè äàííûõ. ß ñäåëàë ýòîé ïðîãðàìêîé
SM> ôàéë 100 Êá ñ èçáûòî÷íîñòüþ 75% (òåîðåòè÷åñêèé ïðåäåë ñæàòèÿ
SM> ñîîòâåòñòâåííî 25%) è ïîëó÷èë íà íåì òàêèå ðåçóëüòàòû:
AG>
SM> type size ds
SM> -+- 100 Êá ---
SM> ha 25,5 Êá 0,5%
SM> zip 29,6 Êá 4,6%
SM> arj 29,7 Êá 4,7%
SM> rar 31,1 Êá 6,1%
AG>
SM> èñõîäíûå äàííûå î÷åíü ñïåöèôè÷íû, íî âñåæå ïîëó÷àåòñÿ, ÷òî
SM> àðõèâàòîðû âûæèìàþò èç ýòîãî òèïà äàííûõ 99,5% ëèøíåé èíôîðìàöèè,
SM> ò.å. óëó÷øàòü òóò ïî÷òè íå÷åãî,
AG>
AG> Êàê è ñëåäîâààëî îæèäàòü, äëÿ òàêèõ äàííûõ HA îêàçàëñÿ îäíèì èç
AG> ëó÷øèõ, õîòÿ åãî ïpåâçîøåë (÷òî âïîëíå çàêîíîìåpíî) êîäåp PPMD.
Äà, 0.2% ýòî ñåðüåçíî :)
AG>
AG> ---- 100000 ---
AG> ha 25565 0.565%
AG> ppmd 25347 0.347%
AG>
AG> Åñëè ó÷åñòü, ÷òî â àpõèâå õpàíèòñÿ ïîìèìî êîäèpîâàííîãî ôàéëà åùå è
AG> åãî èìÿ, êîíòpîëüíàÿ ñóììà è ñëóæåáíàÿ èíôîpìàöèÿ, òî îòêëîíåíèå îò
AG> "èäåàëà" ñîñòàâèò ~0.2%
AG>
Âåðîÿòíî ýòîò òèï äàííûõ èäåàëüíî ïîäõîäèò ïîä àëãîðèòì.
SM> à êàê îáñòîÿò äåëà ñ äðóãèìè òèïàìè äàííûõ ìîæåò êòî
SM> - íèáóäü ñêàçàòü?
AG>
AG> Âñå çàâèñèò îò èçáûòî÷íîñòè èíôîpìàöèè, ïpè÷åì ïpîÿâëÿåìîé
AG> äîñòàòî÷íî íåñòàíäàpòíî. ÈÌÕÎ, òpþê E8/E9 ïîçâîëèë ïîâûñèòü êîìïpåññèþ
AG> EXE-ôàéëîâ çà ñ÷åò çíàíèÿ èõ "îñîáåííîñòåé", íå èìåþùèõ îáùåãî ñ îáùåé
AG> òåîpèåé ñæàòèÿ èíôîpìàöèè.
Âåðîÿòíî, åñëè ïðîàíàëèçèðîâàòü ôàéëû àíàëèòè÷åñêè, òî ìîæíî òàêîãî ðîäà çàêîíî
ìåðíîñòè âûäåëÿòü äëÿ ëþáîãî òèïà äàííûõ (ðå÷è î âðåìåíè ðàáîòû àëãîðèòìà ïðè
ýòîì êîíå÷íî íå èäåò)
Âñåãî íàèëó÷øåãî!
Ñ óâàæåíèåì Ñåðãåé.
---
* Origin: The truth is out there. (2:5037/9.36)
— RU.COMPRESS
From : Dmitry Belash 2:5030/856.12 29 Sep 99 00:13:39
To : Mike Lykov
Subj : Ïðåäåë êîìïðåññèè -- ÷àñòü âòîðàÿ
¦_¦*
¦ ¦¦ Mike!
27 Ñåí 99 ã. Hà ÷àñàõ 12:12. È ïèøåò Mike Lykov ê Sergey Moskovchenko:
DB>>> ïîëó÷èøü ñæàòèå ïî÷òè â òî÷íîñòè íà 75%. Çàìåòü: äëÿ ýòîãî íå
DB>>> íóæíî ñëîæíûõ àëãîðèòìîâ, äîñòàòî÷íî ïðîñòî áðàòü îò êàæäîãî
DB>>> áàéòà 2 ïåðâûõ áèòà è òóïî ïåðåïñûâàòü èõ â âûõîäíîé ôàéë. Â
DB>>> äàííîì ñëó÷àå
SM>> Òàêèõ àëãîðèòìîâ ñæàòèÿ IMHO íåò, ñëèøêîì óæ âñå ïðîñòî, õîòÿ â
SM>> äàííîì ñëó÷àå îíè áûëè áû ñàìûìè îïòèìàëüíûìè.
ML> Êàê-íåò?
ML> Ýòî êàê ðàç íàîáîðîò, ñàìûé ïåðâûé è ïðîñòîé àëãîðèòì :)
ML> Âìåñòî äëèííîé ïîñëåäîâàòåëüíîñòè îäèíàêîâûõ áàéò çàïèñûâàåòñÿ îäèí
ML> áàéò è èõ ÷èñëî.
Ïðè ÷åì òóò RLE? ß æå î áèòàõ ãîâîðèë. ×òî â êàæäîì áàéòå ëåâûå 6 áèò îäèíè è ò
å æå. Ìîæíî ïðîñòî áðàòü ïî äâà îñòàâøèõñÿ áèòà, ìîæíî ïðèìåíèòü õàôôìåíà èëè à
ðèôìåòè÷åñêèé ìåòîä - ðåçóëüòàò áóäåò òîò æå.
Bye!
Dmitry.
--- @c:\windows\win386.swp
* Origin: xxxxxxns smopu!M (2:5030/856.12)
— RU.COMPRESS
From : Dmitry Belash 2:5030/856.12 29 Sep 99 00:19:52
To : Viktor Ostashev
Subj : Ïpåäåë êîìïpåññèè -- ÷àñòü âòîpàÿ
¦_¦*
¦ ¦¦ Viktor!
28 Ñåí 99 ã. Hà ÷àñàõ 11:41. È ïèøåò Viktor Ostashev ê Dimas Gr:
VO> Êñòàòè, òyò åñòü è åùå áîëåå ïîêàçàòåëüíûé ïpèìåp - áåpåì ôàéë, â
VO> êîòîpûé çàïèñàíû ïî ïîpÿäêy âñå 16-áèòíûå ÷èñëà â èõ ìàøèííîì
VO> ïpåäñòàâëåíèè. Ñëîâàp- íûå àëãîpèòìû òyò îòäûõàþò: ïîâòîpÿþùèõñÿ
VO> öåïî÷åê íåò. Âñÿêîå áàéòîâîå êîäè- pîâàíèå - òîæå îòäûõàåò:
VO> âåpîÿòíîñòè âñåõ çíà÷åíèé áàéòà ïî÷òè îäèíàêîâû. Áåpåì
VO> UltraCompressor - è îí ïpîñåêàåò, ÷òî y íàñ òàì ëåæàò äâyõáàéòîâûå
VO> ñëîâà ïî ïîpÿäêy, â påçyëüòàòå ÷åãî 128-êèëîâûé ôàéë æìåòñÿ â ïàpy
VO> äåñÿòêîâ áàéò. Ïpè÷åì â ýòîì ñëy÷àå, çíàÿ, êàê ïîëy÷åí ôàéë, ìû
VO> îòëè÷íî âèäèì, ÷òî èçáûòî÷- íîñòü â ýòîì ôàéëå î÷åíü âåëèêà.
ß òîæå ãîäà òðè íàçàä ñòàâèë òî÷íî òàêîé ýêñïåðèìåíò. È íè îäèí èç ðàñïðîñòðàíå
ííûõ òîãäà àðõèâàòîðîâ òåìó íå ïðîñåê :(
Bye!
Dmitry.
--- @c:\windows\win386.swp
* Origin: xxxxxxns smopu!M (2:5030/856.12)
— RU.COMPRESS
From : Eugene Roshal 2:5010/23.12 29 Sep 99 03:19:00
To : Anton V. Tykhyy
Subj : Ìåòîäû àpõèâàöèè Rar'à
Hello,
> Â ïðèíöèïå ìíå óäàëîñü ñäåëàòü ñîâìåñòèìóþ ñ rar-îì ïðîãðàììó ñæàòèÿ,
> íî îíà âî-ïåðâûõ äèêî òîðìîçèò (îïòèìèçèðîâàòü àáñîëþòíî ëåíü) à âî âòîðûõ
> ïðè áîëüøèõ âõîäíûõ ôàéëàõ (~1MB) ïîÿâëÿþòñÿ ãëþêè... äà è ñòåïåíü ñæàòèÿ
> ïîõóæå áóäåò. Åñëè êîìó èíòåðåñíî - ìûëüòå, ïîäåëþñü...
Âîîáùå-òî rar àëãîðèòì íå ÿâëÿåòñÿ public domain, î ÷åì ÿñíî íàïèñàíî
â ëèöåíçèè. Òàê ÷òî óáåäèòåëüíàÿ ïðîñüáà - íå äåëèòüñÿ äàííîé ïðîãðàììîé
ñ îêðóæàþùèìè. Òåì áîëåå ÷òî ðàñïðîñòðàíåíèå ãëþ÷íîé ïðîãðàììû òîëüêî
óõóäøèò ðåïóòàöèþ rar ôîðìàòà.
Eugene
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* Origin: under construction (2:5010/45.7)
— RU.COMPRESS
From : Dimas Gr 2:469/117.6 29 Sep 99 15:50:26
To : Sergey Moskovchenko
Subj : Ïðåäåë êîìïðåññèè -- ÷àñòü âòîðàÿ
Hell o , Sergey !
DG>> Ìîæíî ñæàòü ôàéë íèæå òåîpåòè÷åñêîãî ïpåäåëà - íàïpèìåp pàp
DG>> èñïîëüçóåò ìóëüòèìåäèéíîå ñæàòèå, óâåëè÷èâàåò ïpîöåíò ñæàòèÿ (ïpèìåp:
DG>> wav, zip:800kb, rar:500kb).
SM> Ïðè èñõîäíîì ðàçìåðå 1000 Gb :)
Hå, 1.5-1.8Mb, íàñêîëüêî ÿ ïîìíþ.
DG>> Ýòî ìîå ïîíèìàíèå òîãî, ÷òî ñêàçàë B.Z. (ïpè ó÷èòûâàíèè ïpîöåíòà
DG>> ñæàòèÿ íàäî ó÷èòûâàòü åùå è àpõèâåp, ïpîöåññîp èòä).
SM> Hå íàäî, ìû î âðåìåíè ñæàòèÿ ïîêà íå ãîâîðèì...
À âpåìÿ ñæàòèÿ òóò íå ïpè÷åì. Ïpèìåp: äîïóñòèì ó ïpîöåññîpà åñòü êîìàíäà
'ñæàòü áëîê äàííûõ ïî ìåòîäó XXX'. Òîãäà êîä, ñæèìàþùèé äàííûå, ñòàíåò êîpî÷å,
÷åì ïpè îòñóòñòâèè ýòîé êîìàíäû.
SM> Èíòåðåñóåò ñàáæ, íàñêîëüêî àëãîðèòìû àðõèâàòîðîâ ïîäîøëè ê
SM> òåîðåòè÷åñêîìó ìàêñèìàëüíîìó óïëîòíåíèþ îòâëå÷åííûõ äàííûõ (òåêñòîâ,
SM> êàðòèíîê, çâóêà)
Ýòî ñìîòpÿ êàê ñ÷èòàòü 'òåîpåòè÷åñêîå ìàêñèìàëüíîå óïëîòíåíèå'.
Dimas, aka gds/FH
--- Welcome to NICE.SOURCES !
* Origin: In hack we trust. (2:469/117.6)