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The PRESIDING OFFICER. Under the previous order, the Senator from Oregon [Mr. Packwood] is recognized to speak for up to 60 minutes.

Mr. PACKWOOD. Mr. President, I had prepared over several days a speech for this morning. But because of a news article this morning on the death of Senator Fulbright the day before yesterday, I decided to change my approach and have thrown away all of the comments I was going to make. I will try to put this debate in a different light.

The Washington Post article on Senator Fulbright is well worth reading, because he was a figure of great consequence here. As we are debating this, another matter of great consequence, I look back at some of the other events that have taken place in my career on this Senate floor. I will not use Yogi Berra's famous expression, `It's deja vu all over again,' because I think a more apt expression might be Justice Holmes' comment about the law, but it really relates to all of us. He said, `The life of the law has not been logic. It has been experience.'

I think, as we look at this balanced budget amendment, we are better off to look at it in the light of experience rather than the light of logic.

I mentioned Senator Fulbright because I recall in this Chamber the most extraordinary event--certainly the most extraordinary debate, but extraordinary event--that I have ever witnessed in my life.

It was an unusual situation. It was a closed session of the Senate on the debate--this was in 1969--on the antiballistic missile system. There were two extraordinary Senators who were going to carry the battle for and against that: Senator Symington of Missouri, high up on the Armed Services Committee, was unalterably opposed; Senator Jackson of Washington, high up on the Armed Services Committee, was unalterably in support. These two Senators had access to identical witnesses, identical information, and came down on absolute opposite sides. The antiballistic missile was a touchstone between the so-called hawks and doves.

We were then enmeshed heavily in Vietnam. This, I suppose, would have been the equivalent of the star wars of its day. Could we invent a missile that would go up in the air and shoot down other missiles? We finally agreed, under a unanimous consent, as I recall, to either 6 or 8 hours of debate. And because it was going to be highly sensitive, classified information, the Senate was cleared of all press. The galleries were closed. The staff left. We had all 100 Senators on the floor and the Vice President presiding.

We started the debate. Senator Symington, in opposition, spoke first. He spoke for an hour without notes. The only references he had were some charts behind him, showing the Russian missile system and its progress. When he finished speaking, I thought to myself, that is the end of the ABM , the antiballistic missile. No one can rebut that argument.

Then, Senator Jackson arose and spoke for an hour, without notes. I remember him turning to Stewart Symington and saying: `Let me take you just a few charts further than where my distinguished colleague from Missouri left off.' And Senator Jackson went on with his seven or eight charts, taking us up to what was probably the SS-18 or SS-19 at the time--a brilliant argument. And I thought when he finished, that is it. We are going to have an antiballistic missile system. No one can rebut that argument.

Then these two giants began to ask questions of each other. Like great fencers, they parried and thrusted.

They each knew the answers to the questions they were asking. They hoped that somehow they could pinion the other. And the reason the questions and answers were so critical is everyone knew this was a close vote, just like this coming vote on the balanced budget amendment. Everyone knew it was one or two votes, one way or the other.

President Nixon desperately wanted the ABM because he needed it as a bargaining chip with the Soviets to attempt to begin arms reduction. Without it, he knew he could not begin. So when the two had finished their speeches and had finished questioning each other, then the rest of us had an opportunity to ask questions.

Again, you have to picture a full Chamber, 100 Senators, in closed session. There was no one here but us: no press, no gallery, no staff. And the third or fourth question was from Senator Fulbright to Senator Jackson.

Senator Fulbright said, `Would my good friend from Washington yield to a question?'

`Yes,' Senator Jackson said.

Senator Fulbright said, `Has my good friend had a chance, yet, to digest the remarks of the Russian Foreign Minister, Andrei Gromyko, in Warsaw last week, in which the Soviet Foreign Minister said that the Soviet Union wanted to reach a new era of detente--of cordiality with the United States? And doesn't my friend from Washington think that before we rush pellmell into this unproven missile system, we should give just some little credence to the words of the Russian Foreign Minister?'

Senator Jackson shot back, as if it had been a prompted question. He pointed his finger at Senator Fulbright. I remember the gesture so well. They sat no more than two or three desks apart.

He said, `Let me call to memory for my friend from Arkansas' and then Scoop Jackson moved his hand like this and said to the--others, who were not here at that time--`that morning, when President Kennedy, in October 1962, asked Russian Foreign Minister Gromyko, who had been at the United Nations the day before, to come to Washington to chat with him. Andrei Gromyko flew down from New York and went to the White House.'

Scoop Jackson related this scene: `That day, the President asked Gromyko, if there were any Russian missiles in Cuba.'

`No, came the answer.'

`Were there any Warsaw Pact country missiles in Cuba?'

`No.'

`Had any missiles been transported on Russian ships to Cuba?'

`No.'

`Were there any Russian troops in Cuba assembling missiles?'

`No.'

Then Scoop Jackson made this gesture. He reached down and said--`Then the President opened the drawer of his desk, took out the pictures from the U-2, threw them in front of Mr. Gromyko--showing the missiles, showing the ships, pictures so good that you could see the chevrons on the sleeves of the Russian troops in Cuba assembling the missiles.'

Scoop Jackson said, `Andrei Gromyko left that room an acknowledged liar. If my friend from Arkansas wants to rest the security of this country on the truthfulness and credibility of Andrei Gromyko, that's his business. I would not ask a single American to sleep safely tonight based upon the credibility of Andrei Gromyko.'

The vote that afternoon was 51 to 50, with the Vice President breaking the tie.

And the answer to that question was the difference of one or two votes.

So do we on occasion have the opportunity to participate in great events where we can make a difference? We do. With that vote, President Nixon was able to start negotiations with the Soviet Union, and it was the first of our major negotiations leading to arms reductions over the years.