[11] With so stern an answer as this the Macedonians [p. 527]were dismissed and the Carthaginian ambassadors6 summoned. When the senators observed the age and high station of each-for these were the very first of the citizens-thereupon all agreed that they were really treating for peace. [12] Most conspicuous among them, however, was Hasdrubal surnamed Haedus7 among his people, always a supporter of peace and an opponent of the Barcine party. [13] Hence he had all the more weight then, as he shifted the blame for the war from the state to the greed of the few. [14] His speech was in different keys, now excusing what was charged, now making some admissions, lest pardon should be harder to obtain if they shamelessly denied known facts, and now even admonishing the conscript fathers to make a moderate and restrained use of their good fortune. [15] He said that if the Carthaginians had listened to him and to Hanno8 and had been minded to take advantage of the right moment, the Romans would have given the terms of peace which they were at that time seeking; that seldom were men given good fortune and good judgment at the same time; [16] that the Roman people was invincible for the reason that in its good fortune it remembered to be wise and to take counsel. And certainly, he said, it would have been wonderful if its practice were different. [17] Men whose good fortune was new because of its strangeness went wild, unable to control their rejoicing; for the Roman people the joys of victory were familiar and now all but threadbare, and they had enlarged their empire almost more by sparing the vanquished than by conquest. [18] The rest of the speakers employed more pathos as they stated from what wealth the Carthaginians' situation had fallen to what depths; that men who [p. 529]recently held almost the whole world by their9 arms had nothing left but the walls of Carthage. Shut up within these walls, they said, they saw nothing on land or sea subject to their rule. [19] Even the city itself and their homes they would hold only in case the Roman people did not choose to vent its animosity upon those possessions also, the last possible step. [20] When it was clear that the senators were inclining to pity, one of their number,10 outraged by the perfidy of the Carthaginians, is said to have called out to them, asking who were the gods in whose name they were to make the treaty, inasmuch as they had proved false to the gods in whose name the former treaty had been made. [21] “The same” said Hasdrubal, since they are so hostile to treaty-breakers."