Tango01  | 01 Jan 2013 2:49 p.m. PST |
Question about the 21st Panzer Division in Normandy. Are there any book/article which mention the effects/results of those vehicles against the Allied landing that you recomended?
Thanks in advance for your guidance. Amicalement
Armand |
| Kaoschallenged | 01 Jan 2013 3:06 p.m. PST |
They aren't armored cars Tango. The top one is a French Hotchkiss H39 and the bottom one is a French Renault UE .The Germans used a few converted French vehicles to Rocket launchers. link
"Infanterie Schlepper UE(f) für 28/32cm Wurfrahmen being inspected by Field Marshal Rommel"
This one has the rockets on top.
link "the Selbstfahrlafette für 28/32 cm Wurfrahmen auf Infanterie-Schlepper UE(f), forty of which would be built in two versions, one with the launch frames at the sides of the hull, the other with a raised platform on the back."
Re: Forgotten Artillerie – The Official Werfer-Artillerie Thread
Postby Rui Esteves » Tue May 27, 2008 2:05 am
Normandy's Final Report about self-propelled Werfer Artillery: 21. Panzer Division had:
(10.) Rgt.Einh./Pz.Gren.Rgt. 125 -> 4 x 8cm Reihenwerfer auf SPW Somua S303/S307 (f)
(10.) Rgt.Einh./Pz.Gren.Rgt. 192 -> 4 x 8cm Reihenwerfer auf SPW Somua S303/307 (f)
10./Pz.Art.Rgt. 155 -> 6 x 8cm Vielfachwerfer auf SPW Somua S303 (f) 716. Infanterie Division had:
Art.Rgt. 1716 -> ? x 8cm Reihenwerfer auf SPW Somua S303 (f)
Art.Rgt. 1716 -> ? x 8cm Vielfachwerfer auf SPW Somua S307 (f) 7. Werfer Brigade had:
I./Werfer-Rgt. 84 -> 7 x 15 cm Panzerwerfer 42 (Sf)
II./Werfer-Rgt. 84 -> 8 x 15 cm Panzerwerfer 42 (Sf)
Another Werfer units in Normandy (but only with motorized 15 cm Nebelwerfer):
SS-Werfer Abt. 102 (From II. SS-Pz.Korps attached to 2. SS-Pz.Div. Das Reich)
Stellungs-Werfer Rgt. 101
link
You might like to check this site. Its in German though,
link
Robert |
| Jemima Fawr | 01 Jan 2013 3:52 p.m. PST |
There is a great misconception that 21. PD had all the ex-French kit, but that's not true at all. They certainly didn't have H39s by the time of D-Day. Panzer-Abteilung 205 in Cherbourg had eleven Pzkpfw 38H(f) & 39H(f) equipped as per your first picture (along with other French tank types), plus with an unknown number of UEs with the 28/32cm wurfrahmen piggy-back launchers described by Robert. Panzer-Abteilung 206 in Le Havre is thought to have been similarly equipped.
The Renault UE with side-mounted 28/32cm wurfrahmen appeared in photos of a junkyard of captured kit in the Cotentin. They probably belonged to a werfer-brigade. I've not seen any evidence to suggest that Panzer-Grenadier-Regiment 192 had them, though these things are always possible, as it was an easy conversion job.
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| Frederick | 01 Jan 2013 3:55 p.m. PST |
Armand, mon vieux ami, there were armoured cars with rockets in Normandy – but they were Staghounds with the Canadian Army Check out page 4 link |
| Jemima Fawr | 01 Jan 2013 3:57 p.m. PST |
Frederick, Like the Guards Armoured Division Shermans, this was certainly done, but not in Normandy. This took place in 1945. |
| jgibbons | 01 Jan 2013 5:47 p.m. PST |
Thats all really interesting info – thanks all! |
| skippy0001 | 01 Jan 2013 6:17 p.m. PST |
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| Kaoschallenged | 01 Jan 2013 7:04 p.m. PST |
link
"Captured UE Tractor with the same wooden back body and camouflaged being used to rebuild Cherbourg docks by US Army Engineers dated July 1944"
"11 Hochtkiss 38 with Wurfrahmen were with Pz.Abt.(bo.) 205 on 1st June 1944.
Source:
Panzer-Tracts 19-1"
link |
| Griefbringer | 02 Jan 2013 8:18 a.m. PST |
How do you adjust the firing angle of those side-mounted launcher frames? Those 28 and 32 cm rockets must have produced quite a blast on the receiving end, but they were also rather short-ranged – maximum range around 2 kilometers. |
| pas de charge | 02 Jan 2013 8:25 a.m. PST |
The launchers are mounted on pivots; in Armand's post you can see the arc below each of them to set the elevation. |
| Jemima Fawr | 02 Jan 2013 8:32 a.m. PST |
Wot they said. However, they weren't adjustable from within the vehicle, so if you wanted to change the set range, each launcher had to be re-set manually by someone outside the vehicle. |
| Kaoschallenged | 02 Jan 2013 8:42 a.m. PST |
And of course you had to reload from the outside too so I guess it would be easier to reset that way. And the reloads being carried by another Renault UE. Here is a great shot BTW,
linkRobert |
| Griefbringer | 02 Jan 2013 9:07 a.m. PST |
Reloading them must have taken some effort – those rockets must have weighted quite a bit each (around 80 kg each?). |
| Jemima Fawr | 02 Jan 2013 9:09 a.m. PST |
Cheers Robert, The photo is of PzAbt 205 at Cherbourg. I was trying to link the photo earlier, but had no luck in Googling for it. You can see the 'piggy-back' variety of UE launcher-vehicle on the left. |
| Kaoschallenged | 02 Jan 2013 9:16 a.m. PST |
Hiya Mark. Its kinda hard to see which is firing the rocket though. The Infanterie Schlepper UE(f) für 28/32cm Wurfrahmen or the Hochtkiss H-39H 735(f) with Wurfrahmen. It looks like the rocket is flying over the UE in the front. Robert |
| Kaoschallenged | 02 Jan 2013 9:23 a.m. PST |
Heres a good view of the arc. Its on a Pz.Kpfw. I Ausf. B with Wurfrahmen 40 (of Pz.Pi.Btl. 79 (4. Pz.Div.), Russia 1941 though. But you get the idea. Robert
link |
| Tango01 | 02 Jan 2013 10:53 a.m. PST |
Many thanks for your great guidance boys! Amicalement
Armand |
