🤐 SPOILER ALERT 🤐
In Outer Banks nothing’s simple. Whether it’s season-spanning treasure hunts or parental relations, things are always messy.
And two men responsible for much of that mess are undeniable foes and complicated dads Ward Cameron (Charles “Chip” Esten) and Big John Routledge (Charles “Charlie” Halford). But despite their obsessive (and sometimes murderous) tendencies, especially when treasure is on the line, these two have an unwavering love for their children. In the end, that trumps any city of gold when it matters most — even though it ultimately costs both of them their lives in the Season 3 finale.
Tudum sat down with Esten and Halford to speak to their characters’ fatherly shortcomings, moments of redemption and the “reverse Romeo and Juliet” nature of their parallel deaths after Sarah (Madelyn Cline) and John B (Chase Stokes) find El Dorado.
To start, do you think Ward and Big John think they’re good fathers? And to that end, do you think they think they’re good fathers?
Charles Halford: That’s a loaded question.
Charles Esten: Yeah, that would depend on at what point in the whole series we’re talking about. Before the series, I think Ward was a good father. And there are moments he still is throughout where you can see the love that he has. But then, of course, no, he’s a terrible father in so many ways. That’s the beauty of Ward — I get to play this guy that leaves people so conflicted. They want to just hate Ward, but in the end they don’t because there’s some humanity there. It goes back and forth, hopefully at the exact same time.
Halford: [Big John’s] got some faults. He’s a very imperfect man, and he’s faced with an enormity of conflict and regrets. Big John is really focused on the future, and sometimes neglects the present in pursuit of that. So the short answer would be no, probably not. He truly believes that if he can achieve his goal, his life’s purpose, the thing that took him out of school and likely interfered with his marriage and even the upbringing of his son, then it’s all worth it. It’s a hard line to walk, but is relatable to a lot of people that wish they could be there more for their kids, and the kids sometimes end up taken for granted and lost in the pursuit of something. It’s a tragic existence.
Right, Big John’s homecoming is not the one John B would’ve imagined.
Halford: Oh yeah. When I was reading the first three scripts of Season 3 — that was what they sent me initially — I was like, “All right, reunion, make up for lost time. Get on the quest.” Then you read the fourth episode, and it’s like, “Oh, we hit the brakes. Hang on a sec. This guy is a little sick, or off, or extremely conflicted.” The creators felt strongly about him being obsessed and relatively unsympathetic, but they also knew the end game before I did.
When did you know your characters would die in the finale?
Halford: I wasn’t told until a ways into it, but it was going to these irretentive points where it’s like, “How is this redeemable? And is it? And can it be without literally losing everything?” There was a through line of “Big John loves the treasure, he loves his son, and he just barely loves his son more.” The moment in Solana when he’s forced to choose between the gold and John B was particularly disturbing for me as an actor, to be the face of that choice. I think that Big John would’ve loved to go home. And I think that had he been able to go home with the Pogues, the gold, once he had it, would’ve been secondary. Ultimately, his son’s happiness is the thing.
Esten: I’ll tell you, it’s hard to leave. For Ward, [the creators] didn’t know anywhere near the beginning of Season 3 [if Ward would die or not]. Certainly, he hit a rock bottom and you could see where he would want that redemption. But then again, he was in so deep that you could see also where he couldn’t get it, and he would fight to keep what was his and what he had. So the story of the season was which way will he go? It was wonderful not to know. I didn’t know because they didn’t know.
Charlie, when you were cast, did you have any idea that Big John was alive and going to return?
Halford: Not the slightest. I was so happy to be a part of launching the story and to see all the kids blossom into these dynamic people. I was in Chicago doing a show up there, and I got a text from Chase. I hadn’t heard from him in a while. And he’s like, “Dude, I just read the last scene from the second season, and man, you’re alive. You’re going to Barbados.” I just threw my phone. I was so excited.
Chip, [co-creator and executive producer] Shannon Burke said that in Ward’s final scene, there were three moments that came from you that weren’t in the script. Do you remember what those were?
Esten: Back in the first season, I said, “Someday you’re going to need this guy to die. I think it would be very cool if he did it to save Sarah.” So we resurrected that at the very end there. Even the look at her was an idea of mine, where the gun is held, and she looks over at me in just fear. You know how you might look to your dad, even if your relationship is utterly destroyed, and there’s a little bit of “Daddy?” in all of us. Like, “What do we do? What’s going to happen?” He looks at her, and he’s broken-hearted because he’s thinking, “There’s nothing I can do. Here we are and I have to watch this.” Then he has that moment.
We all agree, by the way, that we didn’t want there to be any question after this that Ward might still be alive. That would be a little silly and privileged. But more than anything, it would undercut the moment.
Ward was trying to atone this whole season. Chip, do you think he finally finds redemption?
Esten: The one thing Ward never had was peace. He was always conflicted between chasing his gold and being a good person. When you’re lying that much, when you’re doing that many bad things, you’re always ready to get caught. When Sarah’s about to be killed and he’s about to lose Sarah, in that moment, he has a revelation. For the first time, he goes, “Oh, I know what I’m going to do,” without any hesitation, without being torn at all. That was the first peaceful moment for Ward.
Were you moved to see that both fathers died in the finale? Did you see any similarities between them?
Esten: Sarah and John B both transcend the sins of their fathers in a way. Both of their fathers became far too possessed with this gold and this hunt. It just malformed their character. It’s a very parallel event where Big John could have saved the gold of El Dorado, but he saved John B instead. Big John got to show his truest, purest self, too. I find those little parallels to be real rewarding.
And these two guys have known each other for years. You know what? I never thought of it till right now. It’s a bit of a reverse Romeo and Juliet. They’re these two houses of Montague and Capulet, but instead of the two lovers dying at the end, it’s the two fathers. All apologies to Shakespeare, but in my opinion it’s far more apt that those two guys should pay for their sins than that the younger kids should.
Halford: I love that analogy that Chip gave. Watching what John B has to go through, and being isolated, and being told not to talk to anybody about it. That’s on a level of legitimate trauma and abuse. If you asked Big John a thousand times, he wouldn’t say he’s abusive. [He’d say] that he’s just doing what needs to be done, that once he has the gold, everything will make sense. But he’s oblivious to just how hard he is on John B, and that’s an unfortunate reality. Theirs is a hard relationship that’s rooted in a deep love and a promise of a better future that just never gets to be held communally.
Chip, Ward’s death scene was your last day on set. The cast said how you comforted them as they all cried on the drive back home. Did it really feel like you became a dad to them off-screen over these three seasons?
Esten: It’s important to say how much I care about this cast. I loved them from the very first table read. All the things that the world loved about them, I loved about them up close. In terms of how they all treat me, my goodness, I couldn’t ask for anything more. I could go on forever. I work with a group called Musicians on Call that gets performers and singers into hospitals to play music. There was a virtual Christmas concert, and they were looking for people. I’d heard Maddie Bailey [Kiara] sing before and thought her voice was gorgeous. So I reached out to her. She doesn’t go out there so much with her singing, but for the kids, she was a quick yes. She put together this tape that’s just amazing. It’s her singing a Kacey Musgraves Christmas song. It meant so much to so many. They’re there for me. I hope they know how much I’m there for them. Whether Ward’s around or not, Chip will be. It’s a bond that’ll last forever.
This interview has been edited for length and clarity.
Season 3 of Outer Banks is now streaming.
