Timothy, Titus & Philemon Overview

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As I have explained in the past, one of the reasons I am doing this blog is I am curious to see what kind of messages one might get from reading the bible. What might one learn as a take-away. Here is my quick summary of the good and bad from 1 & 2 Timothy, Titus & Philemon.

I've recently decided to put more items in my overviews, and as such it seems like I need to organize these things into categories. I thought of this last minute, so it is a little clumsy this time, but I plan to work on the categories more in the future. It is nice to organize things, but also, you don't want to force things into categories where they don't quite fit. I'm certain some refinement will be necessary.

I've also added a category "Redacted Good Items". These are things I had marked as good when I read the chapter, but I either look back and see it as an error, or more often, things that I have found a different verse negating the message.

(note: the chapter link takes you to my page on that chapter, the verse link takes you to the verse on biblestudytools.com)

Good:

--love--

I 1:5 love comes from a pure heart and good conscience

"The aim of our charge is love that issues from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith."

I 6:11 love steadfastness and gentleness are virtues

"But as for you, O man of God, flee these things. Pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, steadfastness, gentleness"

--generosity--

I 6:9 Greed can be dangerous (oversimplification, but good rule of thumb)

"But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation, into a snare, into many senseless and harmful desires that plunge people into ruin and destruction."

I 6:18 The rich (and presumably everyone else) should be generous

"They are to do good, to be rich in good works, to be generous and ready to share"

I 5:16 if your family can help, they should so the church can focus its resources on the needy

"If any believing woman has relatives who are widows, let her care for them. Let the church not be burdened, so that it may care for those who are truly widows."

T 3:14 Help people in need

"And let our people learn to devote themselves to good works, so as to help cases of urgent need, and not be unfruitful."

--do good things--

I 4:12 Prove your worth with actions

"Let no one despise you for your youth, but set the believers an example in speech, in conduct, in love, in faith, in purity"

T 2:7 You should do good works and have dignity and integrity

"Show yourself in all respects to be a model of good works, and in your teaching show integrity, dignity,"

T 3:8 People should devote themselves to good works.

"The saying is trustworthy, and I want you to insist on these things, so that those who have believed in God may be careful to devote themselves to good works. These things are excellent and profitable for people."

II 2:10 endure hardship to help other people out

"Therefore I endure everything for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation that is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory."

--don't do bad things--

I 1:9-10 those who strike their fathers and mothers, murderers, enslavers, liars, and perjurers are bad

"...those who strike their fathers and mothers, for murderers, the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers..."

T 2:8 leave your enemies nothing bad to say about you

"and sound speech that cannot be condemned, so that an opponent may be put to shame, having nothing evil to say about us."

T 3:2 Be nice to everyone, don't spread rumors

"to speak evil of no one, to avoid quarreling, to be gentle, and to show perfect courtesy toward all people."

I 2:8 Avoid anger and quarreling. 

"I desire then that in every place the men should pray, lifting holy hands without anger or quarreling"

--the rest--

I 4:14 do not neglect your gifts

"Do not neglect the gift you have, which was given you by prophecy when the council of elders laid their hands on you."

I 5:24-25 some deeds (good and bad) are obvious, but some are hidden, only showing up later

"The sins of some men are conspicuous, going before them to judgment, but the sins of others appear later. So also good works are conspicuous, and even those that are not cannot remain hidden"

II 4:2 Always be prepared to teach, also teach with patience

"preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching."

T 2:2 You should be sober-minded, dignified, and self-controlled

"Older men are to be sober-minded, dignified, self-controlled, sound in faith, in love, and in steadfastness."

T 3:3 Remember the mistakes you made in the past and give other people some leeway as well

"For we ourselves were once foolish, disobedient, led astray, slaves to various passions and pleasures, passing our days in malice and envy, hated by others and hating one another."

Phil 8-9, 14 making request is better than giving orders

"Accordingly, though I am bold enough in Christ to command you to do what is required, 9 yet for love's sake I prefer to appeal to you..."

"but I preferred to do nothing without your consent in order that your goodness might not be by compulsion but of your own accord."

Phil 16 Paul requests Onesimus be released from slavery

"no longer as a slave but more than a slave, as a beloved brother--especially to me, but how much more to you, both in the flesh and in the Lord."

Phil 18 Paul takes on Onesimus' debt

"If he has wronged you at all, or owes you anything, charge that to my account."

Redacted Good Items:

I 1:4 myth, genealogies and speculation are bad

"nor to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies, which promote speculations rather than the stewardship from God that is by faith."

I was clearly trying to hard to come up with a good item here, this is just Paul saying other religions are bad

I 1:6-7 don't confidently teach things you don't understand

"Certain persons, by swerving from these, have wandered away into vain discussion, desiring to be teachers of the law, without understanding either what they are saying or the things about which they make confident assertions."

This conflicts with every mention of faith, examples are plentiful

II 2:25 Calm discussion is best

"[RE: the Lord's servants] correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth"

This sounds good, but Paul regularly instructs his leaders to rebuke those who need correction. A perfect example is 1 Timothy 5:20

Bad:

--slavery--

I 6:1 Slaves should work hard to reflect well on God

"Let all who are under a yoke as slaves regard their own masters as worthy of all honor, so that the name of God and the teaching may not be reviled

T 2:9 Endorsement of slavery

"Slaves are to be submissive to their own masters in everything; they are to be well-pleasing, not argumentative"

Phil 11 it is implied that trading slaves is an acceptable form of payment

"Formerly he was useless to you, but now he is indeed useful to you and to me."

--women--

I 2:12 Women are not allowed to be teachers

"I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet"

I 5:13 young single women are gossips and busybodies

"Besides that, they learn to be idlers, going about from house to house and not only idlers, but also gossips and busybodies, saying what they should not."

II 3:6 anti-women

"For among them are those who creep into households and capture weak women, burdened with sins and led astray by various passions"

T 2:3-5 A woman's main goal should be to please her husband

"Older women likewise are to be reverent in behavior, not slanderers or slaves to much wine. They are to teach what is good, 4 and so train the young women to love their husbands and children, 5 to be self-controlled, pure, working at home, kind, and submissive to their own husbands, that the word of God may not be reviled."

--faith--

I 1:5 Love comes from sincere faith

"The aim of our charge is love that issues from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith."


I 6:11 Faith is a virtue

"But as for you, O man of God, flee these things. Pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, steadfastness, gentleness"

II 1:5 faith is a virtue, also nepotism

"I am reminded of your sincere faith, a faith that dwelt first in your grandmother Lois and your mother Eunice and now, I am sure, dwells in you as well."

II 3:14 Keep believing what you already believe

"But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have firmly believed, knowing from whom you learned it"

Phil 6 we gain knowledge through faith

"and I pray that the sharing of your faith may become effective for the full knowledge of every good thing that is in us for the sake of Christ"

--other religions are bad--

I 1:3 Don't let people teach other religions

"As I urged you when I was going to Macedonia, remain at Ephesus so that you may charge certain persons not to teach any different doctrine"

I 4:1 People who disagree with us follow demons

"Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons"

I 4:7 Divisive, calls other religions silly myths

"Have nothing to do with irreverent, silly myths. Rather train yourself for godliness"

I 6:3-4 Demonizing other religions

"If anyone teaches a different doctrine and does not agree with the sound words of our Lord Jesus Christ and the teaching that accords with godliness, he is puffed up with conceit and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy craving for controversy and for quarrels about words, which produce envy, dissension, slander, evil suspicions"

T 1:10, 14, 16 Antisemitic 

"For there are many who are insubordinate, empty talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision party"

"not devoting themselves to Jewish myths and the commands of people who turn away from the truth"

"They profess to know God, but they deny him by their works. They are detestable, disobedient, unfit for any good work."

T 1:11 Jews are greedy

"They must be silenced, since they are upsetting whole families by teaching for shameful gain what they ought not to teach."

--glorification of suffering--

II 1:8 suffering is good

"Therefore do not be ashamed of the testimony about our Lord, nor of me his prisoner, but share in suffering for the gospel by the power of God"

II 2:3 Suffering itself is a good thing

"Share in suffering as a good soldier of Christ Jesus."

--fear mongering--

I 5:8,20 Ruling through fear

"But if anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for members of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever"

"As for those who persist in sin, rebuke them in the presence of all, so that the rest may stand in fear."

--anti-intellectualism--

I 6:20 Anti-intellectual

"O Timothy, guard the deposit entrusted to you. Avoid the irreverent babble and contradictions of what is falsely called "knowledge,"


II 3:7 anti-intellectual

"always learning and never able to arrive at a knowledge of the truth."

T 3:9 Don't have disagreements or quarrels

"But avoid foolish controversies, genealogies, dissensions, and quarrels about the law, for they are unprofitable and worthless."

T 3:10-11 If someone asks too many questions, warn them twice, then have nothing to do with them. Anti-intellectualism.

"As for a person who stirs up division, after warning him once and then twice, have nothing more to do with him, knowing that such a person is warped and sinful; he is self-condemned."

II 2:16 looking at details is bad

"But avoid irreverent babble, for it will lead people into more and more ungodliness"

--the rest--

I 1:9 people are either good or bad, no in between

"...the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless..."

I 1:10 sex and being gay are bad

"the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality..."

II 1:9 God works in mysterious ways

"who saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works but because of his own purpose and grace, which he gave us in Christ Jesus before the ages began"

II 1:18 Paul seems to think the end times are near

"may the Lord grant him to find mercy from the Lord on that Day!--and you well know all the service he rendered at Ephesus"

II 2:22 passion is bad, and another mixed list of good and bad things claimed all good

"So flee youthful passions and pursue righteousness, faith, love, and peace, along with those who call on the Lord from a pure heart."

II 3:2-5 Another list, grouping bad things with not so bad things

"For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good, treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power. Avoid such people."

II 3:12 Christians will be persecuted

"Indeed, all who desire to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted"

II 3:16 All scripture is breathed out by God (clearly false)

"All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness"

II 4:14 Wishing for revenge through God

"Alexander the coppersmith did me great harm; the Lord will repay him according to his deeds."

T 1:12-13 Obvious straw man

"One of the Cretans, a prophet of their own, said, 'Cretans are always liars, evil beasts, lazy gluttons.' This testimony is true. Therefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith,"

T 3:1 Promoting submission and obedience, also coupling of ideas.

"Remind them to be submissive to rulers and authorities, to be obedient, to be ready for every good work"

Phil 19-20 By being saved, your life is owed to the church

"I, Paul, write this with my own hand: I will repay it--to say nothing of your owing me even your own self. Yes, brother, I want some benefit from you in the Lord. Refresh my heart in Christ."

Interesting:

I 2:4 God desires that all people be saved. Why doesn't he make it happen if he's all powerful?

"[God,] who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth."

1 Timothy 6

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Instructions for the Church (cont.) (v. 1-2)

If you are a slave, regard your master as worthy of honor so you won't reflect poorly on God or his teachings. If your master is also a believer, don't treat him with disrespect, but serve all the better since the benefits of your work go toward a brother.

Wow, so not only is this pro-slavery, it says if you are a slave you should be a good slave so as to not reflect poorly on God.

bibleexplained defends this by saying that Jesus wasn't here to change the social order. Wasn't Jesus all about changing the social order? What about all of the "the last shall be first and first shall be last"? What about rich people not being able to get into heaven? It also says that being a slave could give you access a pagan master more easily and help you convert them. This seems a pretty weak excuse to me.

David Guzik adds that slavery isn't being condoned, but just that being a good worker reflects well on God and being a poor worker reflects poorly on God. I don't know where he could possibly be getting that from the bible, it seems obvious to me that it is simply rationalization. To justify the Christian slave with a Christian master, he tries to draw parallels to workers of today who have Christian bosses, saying that Christian workers shouldn't expect special treatment just because their boss is Christian. This to me is a huge dodge, slavery is not the same as a job.

False Teachers and True Contentment (v. 3-10)

If anyone teaches doctrines that don't agree with Jesus Christ, the is conceited, understands nothing, has a craving for controversy and quarrels which produce envy, dissension, slander, and evil suspicions. He is depraved in mind and deprived of the truth, he thinks godliness is a means of gain.

Another one of these lists, and again, the point here is to demonize people who disagree with them. And yes, I do think that godliness is a means of gains, just look at the Vatican.

David Guzik "He warned Timothy against those who seemed to treat the Word of God more as a plaything instead of as a precious gift." He's basically talking about doing what I'm doing right? I'm reading the bible and actually analyzing it, not starting by assuming it is perfect. I can understand why it would want to defend against this type of thing, the bible is full of problems.

As to "godliness is a means of gain" Guzik says "This is another characteristic of those who misuse God’s truth." I stand by my Vatican comment.

We only need food and clothing to be content, seeking more can plunge people into ruin and destruction, the love of money is the root of all kinds of evil, many have fallen away from the faith because of it.

There is a point to be made here, greed is bad and produces bad consequences when taken to extreme. But the acquisition of wealth can produce good things too. The desire to get rich could cause someone to find a more efficient way to do something, producing benefit for everyone while getting that person rich. On the other hand manipulating the system to get yourself rich while taking wealth from others is clearly bad for society. It's just not adequate to say seeking wealth is bad. 

Fight the Good Fight of Faith (v. 11-21)

Paul tells Timothy to flee the bad things previously mentioned and focus on good things "righteousness, godliness, faith, love, steadfastness, gentleness".

Another list, and as usual faith is shoved in there along with other things that are actually good qualities.

hmm, v 16 says Jesus is the only one who has immortality, I thought everyone could be granted eternal life. Confusing.

[edit--I don't usually add much later, but this stuck in my brain this morning and I came back to look at it more] This commentary says that Jesus is the only one able to give immortality. He is the source, we can also get immortality as long as it is from Jesus. The point seems to be that immortality cannot be reached by other means. I suppose this makes sense well enough, especially since this explanation seems to fit well within everything else I'm reading, and my naive reading seems to go contrary to it.

Approach the rich and tell them not to be arrogant and set their hopes on uncertain riches, but instead to focus on God. Be rich in works and share your wealth, so you will have riches in heaven.

It's funny that it calls impossible to verify riches that we have never seen before in heaven as certain, and early riches that we can see uncertain.

Avoid irreverent babble and contradictions and what is falsely called knowledge, professing it can swerve from the faith.

I agree, knowledge can swerve people from the faith. For people who claim that science and the bible can coexist, it sure seems hostile to knowledge.


For the overview post (If you think I should add or remove stuff from this list please let me know, I think it would make good conversation)

Good:

6:9 Greed can be dangerous (oversimplification, but good rule of thumb)

"But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation, into a snare, into many senseless and harmful desires that plunge people into ruin and destruction."


6:11 love steadfastness and gentleness are virtues

"But as for you, O man of God, flee these things. Pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, steadfastness, gentleness"

6:18 The rich (and presumably everyone else) should be generous

"They are to do good, to be rich in good works, to be generous and ready to share"

Bad:

6:1 Slaves should work hard to reflect well on God

"Let all who are under a yoke as slaves regard their own masters as worthy of all honor, so that the name of God and the teaching may not be reviled

6:3-4 Demonizing other religions

"If anyone teaches a different doctrine and does not agree with the sound words of our Lord Jesus Christ and the teaching that accords with godliness, he is puffed up with conceit and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy craving for controversy and for quarrels about words, which produce envy, dissension, slander, evil suspicions"

6:11 Faith is a virtue

"But as for you, O man of God, flee these things. Pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, steadfastness, gentleness"

6:20 Anti-intellectual

"O Timothy, guard the deposit entrusted to you. Avoid the irreverent babble and contradictions of what is falsely called "knowledge,"

1 Timothy 5

Note: I'm continuing this idea for this week, after I write my post as usual, I'm going to look at a bible commentary and insert relevant things into this post. These things will be in blue. Let me know what you think, I will test this idea out for a little while and decide if it is worth keeping.

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Instructions for the Church

Do not rebuke an older man, but encourage him just like you would anybody else.

What a strange statement to make. Is there an impulse I'm unaware of to automatically treat old guys like shit but be nice to everyone else?

This commentary points out that Timothy is younger than many others in the church, perhaps for this reason he might be quick to rebuke the older guys, especially if they come down on him. Paul is telling him not to do that. Makes sense I suppose.

If a widow is at least 60 years old, has no family, and is in good standing with the church (has been the wife of one husband, has a reputation for good works, has brought up children, has shown hospitality, has washed the feet of saints, has cared for the afflicted, has devoted herself to every good work) then she can be enrolled, but any who is self indulgent is dead even while she lives. If she has any family, they should take care of her so the church can help those who don't have family (if anyone does not provide for his relatives, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever). If she is young, she should marry and produce children, for young women's passion would draw them away from the church to marry anyway. Also, they have a tendency to become gossips and busybodies. With the younger women, there is a danger that Satan will work through them.

I'm not exactly sure what it means for the widows to be enrolled in the church, it doesn't seem to quite make sense as a nun as I understand them, but maybe that is what this is. At any rate, it seems that the church is taking care of them in some capacity. The idea that any widow who has family should be taken care of by them is an interesting one. There is certainly the notion of resource management which is important. Obviously, the church has limited resources, they should focus their attention on those who have no one else to help them, while those with capable family should be taken care of by them. This idea I agree with an it reminds me of a conversation we had recently. The issue I have is that the message here seems to be delivered in an incredibly harsh and cold way.  If you don't take care of your relatives you have denied the faith and are worse than an unbeliever? Seems like it is just control through fear.

I looked through a number of commentaries and didn't really see an answer to this stuff. I guess that makes sense given my complaints, I pretty much agree with what is being said, resource management and taking care of family is important. It is just the method they are using to get people to do that is control through fear, which the commentaries I read didn't acknowledge and therefore obviously didn't address.

It also seems to be painting with a pretty broad brush, the whole thing about young widows should remarry because they are gossips. And if you force them to remarry they will no longer be eligible when they are over 60 if their new husband also dies, that doesn't seem quite fair. And I'm not clear on what happens to an older woman who isn't in good standing, are they just SOL?

This commentary says that Paul is not trying to condemn young widows from wanting to remarry, he is just saying it is generally going to happen and therefore those women should not be taken in by the church since they can remarry and hence take care of themselves, and they will likely want to leave soon anyway. This seems to be a bit of spin to me, the actual language of the bible is quite inflammatory, judge for yourself v.13 "Besides that, they learn to be idlers, going about from house to house and not only idlers, but also gossips and busybodies, saying what they should not." 

Elders deserve to be double honored, especially if they teach and preach. Do not charge elders with anything unless there are multiple witnesses, if they persist in sin however, rebuke them in public so that everyone else may stand in fear.

This verse is quite explicitly ruling through fear.

Apparently double honor means that they should get paid. That commentary also seems to endorse the use of fear, as it is good for people to be fearful of sin, this commentary says something similar. Apparently ruling through fear is indeed working as intended. Also the multiple witness thing has to do with combating gossip.

Paul then tells Timothy to keep these rules, using no partiality. Don't be hasty laying on hands and don't take part in sin.

He is telling him not to be too quick to heal? Laying on hands is about healing people right? Why would he not want to heal everyone he could at every opportunity...unless that power was fake and they didn't want it exposed.

Apparently this has to do with people being recognized in the church, so they are talking about getting people ordained, or perhaps about disgraced people being allowed back into the church. I stand corrected.

Drink wine for your stomach and frequent ailments.

Is this specific to Timothy, or for anyone in authority, or for anyone in power in the church? What is the deal here?

Timothy seems to be having some personal health problems.

Some sins are obvious but some are hidden until later, the same is true of good works.

This is true, I suppose he is telling him to be aware of subtleties? Seems like he is on to something good here, wish he had elaborated.

For the overview post (If you think I should add or remove stuff from this list please let me know, I think it would make good conversation)

Good:

5:16 if your family can help, they should so the church can focus its resources on the needy

"If any believing woman has relatives who are widows, let her care for them. Let the church not be burdened, so that it may care for those who are truly widows."

5:24-25 some deeds (good and bad) are obvious, but some are hidden, only showing up later

"The sins of some men are conspicuous, going before them to judgment, but the sins of others appear later. So also good works are conspicuous, and even those that are not cannot remain hidden"


Bad:

5:8,20 Ruling through fear

"But if anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for members of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever"

"As for those who persist in sin, rebuke them in the presence of all, so that the rest may stand in fear."

5:13 young single women are gossips and busybodies

"Besides that, they learn to be idlers, going about from house to house and not only idlers, but also gossips and busybodies, saying what they should not."

1 Timothy 4

Note: Today I'm trying a new idea, after I write my post as usual, I'm going to look at a bible commentary and insert relevant things into this post. These things will be in blue. Let me know what you think, I will test this idea out for a little while and decide if it is worth keeping.

Listen to the podcast below (or right click this link for the mp3 file) 

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Some Will Depart from the Faith (v. 1-5)

In the later times, some will depart the faith in favor of deceitful spirits and demons.

This is more of this divisive language, people who don't agree with us must be following demons.

Everything created by God is good.

I thought everything was created by God. Does that mean everything is good? Including demons, murderers, and even women who talk in church?

According to bibleexplained.com, this only applies to creatures, (I looked at some other translations and it usually says "everything created" not "every creature"). They say that Timothy should know to avoid poisonous creatures because they were already warned about why Paul warned him against myths. But that makes no sense to me because he was warning him to not follow those myths.

David Guzik claims that the purpose of this is to not restrict our diets. Nothing is off limits is the message, getting rid of kosher laws I guess is the point of it. That makes a little more sense.

A Good Servant of Christ Jesus (v. 6-16)

Relay these messages to the brothers and be a good servant of Christ. Don't have anything to do with irreverent, silly myths.

Here he says to avoid myths again. I know that last time this came up I put it as a good thing, but now I'm not so sure. It's clear he's talking about another religion (I'm pretty sure paganism) and he is exempting his own myths. This is just more of that divisive stuff that is littered throughout all of this writing.

Again from David Guzik, he pretty much confirms what I was thinking here. He's talking about rejecting the words of man and following the words of God. Of course he is assuming his religion is right and all others are fiction created by man.

We work hard to spread the word of God to everyone, because he is the savior of all people, especially those who believe.

This is verse 10 and I find it interesting. It says God is the savior of all people, so why does anyone go to hell? I guess the answer is that he is potentially the savior of everyone, but some people reject being saved, that's the best I can come up with. It doesn't really seem to gel with the passage though.

Let no one discount you because you are young, set a good example in speech, conduct, love, faith, and purity.

This is a really good message, I like it a lot. Just because you are young, don't let people judge you based on that. Convince them you are worthy of your position based on your actions. He is essentially telling Timothy to prove that he deserves the position he is in. I like the message and I think it extends to a great many situations. If you are in a position where people are going to prejudge you, you should just do a great job and prove them wrong. Demonstrate that the prejudice is misplaced and you deserve the spot. Also, from the other side it says give people a chance and let them convince you they are worthy. (I hope this made sense, I tried to make it vague so it would apply to a lot of different situations)

Do not neglect your gifts.

I like this too, whatever natural talents you have, you should make good use of them and cultivate them for the good of yourself and those around you.

For the overview post (If you think I should add or remove stuff from this list please let me know, I think it would make good conversation)

Good:

4:12 Prove your worth with actions

"Let no one despise you for your youth, but set the believers an example in speech, in conduct, in love, in faith, in purity"

4:14 do not neglect your gifts

"Do not neglect the gift you have, which was given you by prophecy when the council of elders laid their hands on you."

Bad:

4:1 People who disagree with us follow demons

"Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons"

4:7 Divisive, calls other religions silly myths

"Have nothing to do with irreverent, silly myths. Rather train yourself for godliness"

1 Timothy 3

Listen to the podcast below (or right click this link for the mp3 file)

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Qualifications for Overseers (v. 1-7)

There was a footnote in my bible that says overseer is something like a bishop, so we are talking about someone overseeing matters of the church.

Overseer is a noble position, so those who seek it must be above reproach. He should be the husband of one wife, sober-minded, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, not a drunkard, not violet but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money.

The interesting item in this list is husband of one wife, this seems to imply that other people in the church can have multiple wives. I suppose you could argue that this is saying he can't be a bachelor, but then why not say "a husband" rather than specifying "one wife"? (I was going to put this in the bad section, but then I realized that as long as everyone consents, I don't have a problem with polyamory)

He must manage his household well, keeping his children submissive. For if he can't manage that how can he manage the church?

It makes sense that you need to have you own shit together before taking on a big responsibility, but why is the measure of that having your kids be submissive? Having your kids listen to you is important, but it seems to be the only measure of good parenting that comes up in the bible. (Colossians 3, Ephesians 6)

He must not be a new member to the church and he must be well thought of by outsiders, otherwise he might fall into disgrace, or a snare of the devil.

I suppose the snare of the devil could easily enough be interpreted as metaphor or something. The rest here seems reasonable.

Qualifications for Deacons (v. 8-13)

Similar rules as for the Overseer but the qualifications seem a touch lower. Example, "not addicted to too much wine", and "not greedy for dishonest gain" as opposed to "not a lover of money" for the overseer. But basically the same idea, he needs to be an upstanding guy with one wife.

There was one interesting thing though, v9 "they must hold the mystery of faith with a clear conscience" What is the mystery of faith? The phrasing just seems weird to me.

The Mystery of Godliness (v. 14-16)

Paul says he's writing this in case he is later than he intends, Timothy will know how to act in the church. He then says that the mystery of godliness is that God was manifest in flesh, vindicated by the spirit, seen by angels, proclaimed among the nations, believed on the world, taken up in glory.

I think the real mystery is what the hell Paul is talking about.

For the overview post (If you think I should add or remove stuff from this list please let me know, I think it would make good conversation)

Interesting:

3:2 implies that bigamy [-edit thanks TWF- or perhaps divorce] is acceptable (or at least tolerated) among the rank and file of the church

"Therefore an overseer must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, sober-minded, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach"

1 Timothy 2

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Pray for All People (v. 1-15)

You should pray for everyone, because God wants everyone to be saved. That is why God sent Christ to give himself as ransom for everyone.

I have a question about this idea that God wants everyone to be saved. If God truly wants this, and he is really all powerful, then why does anyone go to hell? The standard answer I seem to hear to this question is 'free will'. But God doesn't seem to have any qualms about interrupting free will. 

Men should pray, wherever they are, and be without anger or quarreling.

I like the no anger and quarreling part, but it seems that praying wherever you are could cause problems. You might think this is some kind of praying in the back of our minds or something, but it says we are supposed to hold our hands up. Also, are we supposed to do this all the time? That obviously wouldn't work.

Women should dress modestly (no braided hair and gold, pearls, or costly attire). Women should be quiet and submissive. Women are not permitted to teach or exercise authority over a man, rather they should remain quiet.

Wow...just wow. I think this is the first time I have seen it explicitly say women are not allowed to teach (I thought I read that before, but I might have just seen other people write about this on various blogs). It is certainly not the first time we have come across some ridiculous misogynist garbage though.

For the overview post (If you think I should add or remove stuff from this list please let me know, I think it would make good conversation)

Good:

2:8 Avoid anger and quarreling. 

"I desire then that in every place the men should pray, lifting holy hands without anger or quarreling"

Bad:

2:12 Women are not allowed to be teachers

"I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet"

Interesting:

2:4 God desires that all people be saved. Why doesn't he make it happen if he's all powerful?

"[God,] who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth."

1 Timothy 1

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According to wikipedia, the Authorship of this was generally accepted as Paul until the last couple of centuries. Many modern scholars have analyzed the vocabulary and style and believe it was written by an early admirer of Paul. Those who think Paul wrote this think it was written at the end of Paul's ministry 62-67 AD, others think it could have been written up to a few hundred years after that.

Greeting (v. 1-2)

Paul is writing a letter to a young follower Timothy.

The previous books of the bible that were written by Paul were all sent out to various places, Paul was trying to reach a large group of people. This letter on the other hand is from Paul to Timothy, it seems a little more personal. It feels like I am reading someone else's mail, which makes me mildly uncomfortable. I guess Timothy is working for Paul in a sense, maybe it's more like reading an inner office memo. Not as bad, still weird though.

Warning Against False Teachers (v. 3-11)

Don't let people teach different doctrines.

This seems like a natural thing to say for them, they are trying to promote their religion after all, but this seems like the kind of thing that could start fights, and ultimately wars.

Don't let people devote themselves to myths and endless geneologies which promote speculation.

This I like, of course myth is in the eye of the beholder. I wouldn't be surprised if this statement that I like and the previous one I didn't are actually intended to mean the same thing, but I'll give them the benefit of the doubt here. Also, the genealogy thing here seems weird as the bible seems full of it, is Paul saying that the all genealogies are bad, including those in the bible which we shouldn't focus on, or is he targeting some other genealogy of another popular religion of the time?

Our focus should be that love comes from a pure heart, a good conscience, and sincere faith.

This verse I am putting as both good and bad. Love coming from a pure heart and a good conscience I am completely on board with. I actually like it a lot. But faith is poison, it is one of the main problems I have with Christianity, is the idea that faith is a virtue. Faith is a bad thing.

Some people stray from these ideas and wind up teaching the law without really understanding it, and yet stating it with confidence.

I'm totally on board here, teaching things without understanding them is bad, and acting confident when you are actually pretty ignorant causes problems.

The law is not for the just, but for the lawless.

This is interesting, it sets the world into 2 groups, the just and the lawless. This is not reality. People live on a spectrum, doing some good things and some bad things. Seeing the world in this binary fashion is simplistic and I would argue ultimately damaging.

We end this section with a list of things that are bad, specifically it is a list of the types of people the law is for in addition to the lawless, these include: disobedient, ungodly, sinners, unholy, profane, those who strike their fathers and mothers, murderers, sexually immoral, homosexuals, enslavers, liars, perjurers.

I have a few comments here, first, are we equating all of these crimes? Second, having slaves isn't frowned upon, so what is up with enslavers? There was a footnote in my bible which says they are talking about people who capture people and sell them into slavery. So I guess it's not the slavery itself, but the capturing of people? Finally, there are a few things that I would argue shouldn't be on the list, sexual immorality and homosexuality, not that this is the first time we've seen this. Also, sometimes disobedience is warranted, and I clearly don't have a problem with being ungodly, sinning, or being unholy.

Christ Jesus Came to Save Sinners (v. 12-20)

Paul says that Jesus came to save sinners, he holds himself up as an example, he was the worst among sinners, and "the grace of the lord overflowed" in him and he was converted. This is a message to believers that anyone is a potential convert and no one is a lost cause.

I think the idea is that God did some special thing to Paul to get him converted so he could be an example. If this is the case, why wouldn't God just do that same thing to everyone? If it is not the case, and even God doing the same thing he did to Paul wouldn't work on some people, then they are a lost cause and the message is BS. If God can't convert them what hope do his lowly followers have?

One final thing I will point out, Paul ends the chapter by pointing out that Hymenaeus and Alexander have been handed over to Satan so they can learn to not blaspheme. I don't know exactly what "handing over to satan" means, but it sounds bad. I would point out that Paul is punishing them for doing what he admitted to doing himself in verse 13.

For the overview post (If you think I should add or remove stuff from this list please let me know, I think it would make good conversation) [wow, there was a lot to talk about in this chapter]

Good:

1:4 myth, genealogies and speculation are bad

"nor to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies, which promote speculations rather than the stewardship from God that is by faith."

1:5 love comes from a pure heart and good conscience

"The aim of our charge is love that issues from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith."

1:6-7 don't confidently teach things you don't understand

"Certain persons, by swerving from these, have wandered away into vain discussion, desiring to be teachers of the law, without understanding either what they are saying or the things about which they make confident assertions."

1:9-10 those who strike their fathers and mothers, murderers, enslavers, liars, and perjurers are bad

"...those who strike their fathers and mothers, for murderers, the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers..."

Bad:

1:3 Don't let people teach other religions

"As I urged you when I was going to Macedonia, remain at Ephesus so that you may charge certain persons not to teach any different doctrine"

1:5 Love comes from sincere faith

"The aim of our charge is love that issues from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith."

1:9 people are either good or bad, no in between

"...the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless..."

1:10 sex and being gay are bad

"the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality..."