Trackball to USB adapter issues

[woosdom]

Having an issue with my trackball not moving the cursor.  I’m using a trackball to USB adapter and all I’m getting is the cursor shaking on screen.  Could it be the trackball sensors are not compatible? The trackball still works with my Capcom Bowling pcb.

[PL1]

The trackball still works with my Capcom Bowling pcb.

Good news: This eliminates burnt out LEDs/optos.   

I’m using a trackball to USB adapter

Which type? Link?

all I’m getting is the cursor shaking on screen.  Could it be the trackball sensors are not compatible?

What high and low voltages are you seeing on the two data lines of each axis?
- Each data line should alternate between high/low as the encoder wheel spokes pass/block the IR LED beam.
- Move slowly and try to stop on high or low since auto-ranging multimeters take a relatively long time to sample.

This quadrature waveform shows what you would see on the data lines (A and B) when you slowly turn the axis clockwise.



If the cursor is moving back and forth one step as you turn the trackball, that is a sign that one of the data lines is not properly connected or not reaching the voltages associated with logic high/low.

Can you stop the shaking by slightly moving the trackball?
- When the encoder wheel spoke blocks the IR LED beam to the opto, the opto outputs a logic low.
- When the encoder wheel spoke doesn't block the IR LED beam to the opto, the opto outputs a logic high.
- When the encoder wheel spoke partly blocks the IR LED beam to the opto, the opto can output a mid-level voltage that can be read by the optical (mouse) encoder as bouncing between high or low.

If the shaking cursor is moving more than one step, that could be a sign that both data lines are at the mid-level voltage mentioned above.


Scott

[woosdom]

Cursor shakes when I move the trackball around. 

I don’t have a meter to check the voltages.

[PL1]

Which optical (mouse) encoder are you using?  Opti-Wiz??  I-Pac2 trackball pins??  Mouse hack??

You need the optical encoder to translate the raw optical data (quadrature waveform) to USB mouse commands.

Since the trackball works with a game PCB, the problem is probably either with the connections to the encoder or the encoder itself.

Cursor shakes when I move the trackball around. 

To be clear, moving the trackball only causes the cursor to shake a bit, not move across the screen, right?

Is each axis moving only 1 step back-and-forth (1 bad data line connection on that axis) or several steps? (both data lines are intermittent or not making clear transitions between logic high and low)

I don’t have a meter to check the voltages.

Well that makes troubleshooting rather difficult.   

There is a way to test the encoder using 5v, ground, and two three-tab microswitches to generate fake quadrature waveforms in place of the trackball data lines, but that's doing things the hard way and still leaves unanswered questions.   


Scott

[woosdom]

correct the cursor shakes and does not move across the screen.  I am using the adapter from Mike's Arcade.  I chatted with them and I received a replacement.  That's why I think it has to be the trackball. 

I had a crappy meter that might have worked, but I moved about a month ago and still haven't found it.

[PL1]

There's no documentation for that encoder on the product page here, but it says that it is compatible with your Wico trackball.

If you can find your meter:
1. Ohm out all the connections between the trackball and encoder harnesses to ensure that there is good continuity and no shorts. (make sure power is not applied when taking resistance measurements unless you're looking for an excuse to buy a new meter)
2. Check the data line high/low voltages.


Scott

[Namco]

RISE FROM YOUR GRAVE...
Woosdom, did you find a resolution for this? Was it a USB interface problem or wiring?

I have this trackball with the exact same encoders. Using a nicely made little adapter from T-Molding.com I plugged it into an IPAC2 I have good continuity on all the pins on the board from one end to the other. All the connectors have good continuity. With my meter set to 200 on the ohm meter side, all lines through the connector measure 00.6 ohms. The resistor on the encoder measures 100ohms almost on the money. The IPAC 5v pins on the trackball headers are giving out 5v too. When I spin the trackball the cursor does not appear to move at all.

I'm guessing that this thing is wired differently than the Happ trackball? Even though the 5v from the iPac lines up with the red line to the encoder board and the black ground wire lines up with the black wire on the encoder board. Let me know if I should reverse the data lines or if I should reverse the 5v and ground lines (or both?)

EDIT: Re-reading PL1's advice, I guess I'll start measuring the output lines and look for life and for fluctuation between high and low (I wish I had a logic probe!)

[woosdom]

I bought two of these "IMPERIAL / WICO REPLACEMENT TRACKBALL OPTICAL BOARD" and replaced the old ones. worked fine with adapter after i did this.

[Namco]

The Twisted Quarter one? https://twistedquarter.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=113_732_735&products_id=3330

[PL1]

When I spin the trackball the cursor does not appear to move at all.

This tells me that it is either wired wrong and/or both optos are bad and/or the boards are "active high" devices.

I know that U-HIDs and OptiPacs can handle active high devices via a software setting, but not sure if IPacs can do that.   

I'm guessing that this thing is wired differently than the Happ trackball? Even though the 5v from the iPac lines up with the red line to the encoder board and the black ground wire lines up with the black wire on the encoder board.

Looking at the pictures of the adapter cable, the black wires are not ground. (see note at bottom of pic)

In this pic, it looks like the 4 pin connector green wire (right side) is on the ground pin.



Based on the IPac pin arrangement and the other photos, it looks like the two Dupont connectors should be wired like this:

  4-pin:  5v, data line, data line, ground

  3-pin:  5v, data line, data line

Let me know if I should reverse the data lines or if I should reverse the 5v and ground lines (or both?)

If the data lines were swapped, the axis would move in the wrong direction.

I guess I'll start measuring the output lines and look for life and for fluctuation between high and low (I wish I had a logic probe!)

As mentioned earlier in the tread, go slowly to allow your multimeter to keep up with the transitions.

If you aren't sure if the IR LEDs are working and wired correctly, use a cell phone or digital camera.




Scott

[Namco]

Hi PL1,

Thanks for your reply! I'm pretty sure the optos work because they show a 1.2v voltage drop. And with the meter set to 200m DC, touching the X1/X2 and Y1/Y2 lines I can see the values are stable and they change as I slowly move the trackball, they smoothly move from -3.4 to 2.1 and back again. Seeing these values smoothly change and that the behavior matches for both boards tells me that the TB hardware is good and I should email Andy to see if there's some kind of firmware flash I need for this IPAC2. Clearly the OptiPac says it can handle WICOs, I just assumed the IPAC2 would too.

EDIT: I see it now in the IPAC2 description: "This board also has a connector which can be configured to plug our trackball and spinner into, or for our console interfaces." It's setup for the U-Trak apparently which I guess is like digital pulses (PWM) and my device is sending a range of voltages (analog).

[PL1]

EDIT: I see it now in the IPAC2 description: "This board also has a connector which can be configured to plug our trackball and spinner into, or for our console interfaces." It's setup for the U-Trak apparently which I guess is like digital pulses (PWM) and my device is sending a range of voltages (analog).

Yeah, I saw the same thing about configuring the board.

Using the Expansion/Trackball/Spinner interface on I-PAC 2

These pins form a dual-purpose interface. The function is configured in the "config" tab in WinIPAC.

There are 2 modes:

Expansion Interface Disabled: In this mode, an Ultimarc U-Trak trackball and SpinTrak spinner can be directly plugged into the header pins. The wire colors are marked.

Expansion Interface Enabled : In this mode, one or two Ultimarc Xbox360/PS3/Xinput converters can be plugged into the header pins. The wire colors are marked.

Optical inputs aren't like PWM outputs where you're simulating an analog output.

Each logic high/low or low/high change is a single discrete phase step.
- If both lines are high (phase 3) and nothing changes, you stay at phase 3 ==> no movement.
- If both lines are high and line B then goes low, you go to phase 4 ==> 1 step right.
- If both lines are high and line A then goes low, you go to phase 2 ==> 1 step left.

If the optos are working correctly you should get the pattern of logic highs and lows shown below when you slowly turn the encoder wheel clockwise.
- If you turn the encoder wheel clockwise, you move from phase 1 to 2 to 3 to 4 to 1 . . .
- If you turn the encoder wheel counter-clockwise, you move from phase 1 to 4 to 3 to 2 to 1 . . .



Active high and active low devices have different voltage ranges for logc high and logc low.
-If the higher voltage of the square wave doesn't reach above the upper dashed line voltage, the encoder won't read it as logic high ==> stuck in phase 1. (both low)
-If the lower voltage of the square wave doesn't reach below the lower dashed line voltage, the encoder won't read it as logic low ==> stuck in phase 3. (both high)




Scott

[woosdom]

The Twisted Quarter one? https://twistedquarter.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=113_732_735&products_id=3330

Yes that’s the one.

[MartyKong]

Hey guys, I see this discussion is about Wico trackballs. Question - I have a Happ trackball with a green USB board and would like to switch to the better red boards. Do you know if the Happ trackballs will work with the Ipac2? Thanks

[PL1]

I have a Happ trackball with a green USB board and would like to switch to the better red boards. Do you know if the Happ trackballs will work with the Ipac2? Thanks

Yes, you can exchange Happ USB green boards for Happ red boards and the red boards work with the IPac2.   




Scott

[MartyKong]

Great to know   Thanks PL1

[Namco]

EDIT: I had a whole update typed out, but I figured out how to read the TB voltages properly using Andy's guide here: http://ultimarc2.com/optipac3.html

Testing the individual X1, Y1, X2, Y2 values against ground, it reads 5v no matter if the emitter is blocked or unblocked. I have dead IR recievers. Going to order new ones.